[pp.int.general] Transparency in the party

[Antonio Garcia]

I could not agree more.

But then, I am eagerly awaiting a Beppe Grillo in the Netherlands also.

I hope you can agree with that too.


Antonio.

> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:15:56 +0100
> From: thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Transparency in the party
> 
> Hey PP-IT, while you were busy proclaiming that you are in fact the one 
> and only pirate party of Italy, Grillo got 25% of the vote on a platform 
> incorporating the pirate platform. Maybe this should be a wake up call. 
> Maybe you should spend some time actually being the pirate party of 
> Italy - something tells me that part of that 25% could well have gone 
> your way should you have taken less credit for being the pirate party of 
> Italy and more time living up to your name. Just a thought. Of course, 
> your best bet is to ignore this message as pointless trolling and carry 
> on as you have before, agreeing with one another in your nice little 
> comfortable circle where everyone knows each other. And where you can, 
> without irony, propose that mumble might be a good way to discuss things 
> transparently cause everyone who gives a fuck can be online and listen 
> to people who love to hear themselves speak, or listen back to a 
> delightful recording to do as much.
> 
> Say PPI, why don't we ditch PP-IT and jump onboard the Grillo bandwagon 
> on the Italian front? Just to set PP-IT a bar to jump over before we 
> want to hear them talk again. Sounds too good to be adopted as stance by 
> ppi, sadly.
> 
> carlo von lynX schreef op 27.02.2013 13:01:
> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:56:52AM +0100, Dario wrote:
> >> It is impossible to keep a clean debate on Twitter. Too much short 
> >> to do
> >> meaningful statements, too much lack of structure to follow properly 
> >> a
> >> conversation. The opposite is true, mailing lists then to long 
> >> debates,
> >> with too much long texts, etc. We need to find a middle ground.
> >
> > +1 ___ i'm in favour of a lqfb + mumble approach. pin down the 
> > concrete
> > positions and facts in liquid, then have a virtual beer conversation
> > by teleconference to avoid the debate from getting misunderstood,
> > avoid paranoia and hatred to rise.
> >
> >> Also, I don't believe almost everyone on PP-DE uses Twitter and 
> >> discuss
> >> everything there. I guess the most important (and delicate) issues 
> >> are
> >> dealt in mailing lists, etherpads or even wiki's discussions.
> >
> > you're right. it's the most extrovert ones, be it in-crowd and/or 
> > trolls,
> > that populate twitter. they're not representative of the party but 
> > they
> > are seen the most both by media and by the board which is put unter
> > terrible pressure by every painful remark that goes about retweeted.
> >
> > it's an impossibility in theory of democracy for a representative, be 
> > it
> > the board or a parlamentarian, to do it *right* for everyone. that's 
> > why
> > we turned to liquid democracy in the first place, so that the party 
> > can
> > develop coherent positions and the board has clear guidelines to 
> > follow.
> >
> > the board should cut down on listening to single party members and 
> > teach
> > them to express their will by liquid democracy. many trolls are 
> > totally
> > unaware that their positions are far away from common ground - a 
> > liquid
> > reality check tells them so, indicating them to stop making all that
> > noise, whereas good points make it through the procedure and get to 
> > the
> > people who are currently executing the will.
> >
> > IMHO introducing https://lqfb.piratenpartei.de/lf/area/show/16.html 
> > was
> > the best idea they had in a long time. they should make all 
> > non-urgent
> > communication/decision-making pass this liquid democratic channel, 
> > and
> > by teaching all pirates to participate in it, it also becomes more 
> > and
> > more representative.
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
 		 	   		  
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