[pp.int.general] Transparency in the party

[thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl]

So do I, oh so do I.

Antonio Garcia schreef op 27.02.2013 15:11:
> I could not agree more.
>
> But then, I am eagerly awaiting a Beppe Grillo in the Netherlands
> also.
>
> I hope you can agree with that too.
>
> Antonio.
>
>> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:15:56 +0100
>> From: thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Transparency in the party
>>
>> Hey PP-IT, while you were busy proclaiming that you are in fact the
> one
>> and only pirate party of Italy, Grillo got 25% of the vote on a
> platform
>> incorporating the pirate platform. Maybe this should be a wake up
> call.
>> Maybe you should spend some time actually being the pirate party of
>> Italy - something tells me that part of that 25% could well have
> gone
>> your way should you have taken less credit for being the pirate
> party of
>> Italy and more time living up to your name. Just a thought. Of
> course,
>> your best bet is to ignore this message as pointless trolling and
> carry
>> on as you have before, agreeing with one another in your nice little
>
>> comfortable circle where everyone knows each other. And where you
> can,
>> without irony, propose that mumble might be a good way to discuss
> things
>> transparently cause everyone who gives a fuck can be online and
> listen
>> to people who love to hear themselves speak, or listen back to a
>> delightful recording to do as much.
>>
>> Say PPI, why dont we ditch PP-IT and jump onboard the Grillo
> bandwagon
>> on the Italian front? Just to set PP-IT a bar to jump over before we
>
>> want to hear them talk again. Sounds too good to be adopted as
> stance by
>> ppi, sadly.
>>
>> carlo von lynX schreef op 27.02.2013 13:01:
>> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:56:52AM +0100, Dario wrote:
>> >> It is impossible to keep a clean debate on Twitter. Too much
> short
>> >> to do
>> >> meaningful statements, too much lack of structure to follow
> properly
>> >> a
>> >> conversation. The opposite is true, mailing lists then to long
>> >> debates,
>> >> with too much long texts, etc. We need to find a middle ground.
>> >
>> > +1 ___ im in favour of a lqfb + mumble approach. pin down the
>> > concrete
>> > positions and facts in liquid, then have a virtual beer
> conversation
>> > by teleconference to avoid the debate from getting misunderstood,
>> > avoid paranoia and hatred to rise.
>> >
>> >> Also, I dont believe almost everyone on PP-DE uses Twitter and
>> >> discuss
>> >> everything there. I guess the most important (and delicate)
> issues
>> >> are
>> >> dealt in mailing lists, etherpads or even wikis discussions.
>> >
>> > youre right. its the most extrovert ones, be it in-crowd and/or
>> > trolls,
>> > that populate twitter. theyre not representative of the party but
>> > they
>> > are seen the most both by media and by the board which is put
> unter
>> > terrible pressure by every painful remark that goes about
> retweeted.
>> >
>> > its an impossibility in theory of democracy for a representative,
> be
>> > it
>> > the board or a parlamentarian, to do it *right* for everyone.
> thats
>> > why
>> > we turned to liquid democracy in the first place, so that the
> party
>> > can
>> > develop coherent positions and the board has clear guidelines to
>> > follow.
>> >
>> > the board should cut down on listening to single party members and
>
>> > teach
>> > them to express their will by liquid democracy. many trolls are
>> > totally
>> > unaware that their positions are far away from common ground - a
>> > liquid
>> > reality check tells them so, indicating them to stop making all
> that
>> > noise, whereas good points make it through the procedure and get
> to
>> > the
>> > people who are currently executing the will.
>> >
>> > IMHO introducing
> https://lqfb.piratenpartei.de/lf/area/show/16.html
>> > was
>> > the best idea they had in a long time. they should make all
>> > non-urgent
>> > communication/decision-making pass this liquid democratic channel,
>
>> > and
>> > by teaching all pirates to participate in it, it also becomes more
>
>> > and
>> > more representative.
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________
>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
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