[pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?

[Zbigniew Łukasiak]

On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Betiel <betielix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> 2013/7/12 Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Betiel <betielix at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > What`s the matter if it is leftist or not? The question must be if it
>> > will
>> > be usefull and solve people problems or not. Or if basic incomes should
>> > be
>> > addressed by pirates parties or not. If you see it as a kind of human
>> > right
>> > I believe is a valid pirate topic.
>> >
>> > In Argentina we actually have basic income by law. It would be crazy to
>> > try
>> > to change that, except perhaps to ask for a change in the mount due to
>> > inflation, so we really do not have discussions about it.
>>
>> Hmm - I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing - I have
>> not heard about any country implementing the 'unconditional basic
>> income' - or in other words 'citizen salary'.
>
>
> I hope the other message I`ve send explains it better.

Yes.  I would argue that minimum wage
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage) is very different from
basic income (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income).

Minimum wage is raising the bar for employment - some people say that
it does not create unemployment but we can easily imagine minimum wage
so high that it would, and if it is low enough - then perhaps it is
not needed at all.  By being conditional it also adds complexity to
the state - while basic income fulfills the humanitarian need -
perhaps even better than minimum wage, because it covers all cases:
the unemployed, the sick, etc. - without adding complexity.

Z.


>
>>
>>
>> Z.
>>
>>
>> > Personally I believe having a basic income helps to avoid abuses from
>> > some
>> > unethical companies.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2013/7/12 Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>
>> >>
>> >> Basic income is often mentioned as point of the pirates program.  Do
>> >> you think it is a universal thing across all pirate parties - or is it
>> >> just the German pirates that stand strongly behind it?
>> >>
>> >> Do you think it is leftist?
>> >>
>> >> Personally I support Basic Income.  It might be viewed as slightly
>> >> leftist - but if it is introduced together with a linear taxation
>> >> scale and getting rid of unemployment benefits - then it is not
>> >> leftist at all.  For me the most important aspect of this whole
>> >> package is that it makes governance simpler.  Taxation is decoupled
>> >> and can be payed independently for all income sources and the state is
>> >> not forced to do things that depend too much on personal circumstances
>> >> (like checking if the person is really unemployed and if he really
>> >> tries to find a job etc) - state is not good in these - people quickly
>> >> learn how to fool it and that is demoralizing.  But state is good for
>> >> universal services - like paying everyone the same amount.  So let the
>> >> state do what it is good at and let other, smaller organizations do
>> >> other things.
>> >>
>> >> There are of course many other benefits as well - but this is what
>> >> moves me personally.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Zbigniew Lukasiak
>> >> http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
>> >> http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
>> >> ____________________________________________________
>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________
>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zbigniew Lukasiak
>> http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
>> http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>



--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/