[pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?

[Betiel]

2013/7/12 Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>

> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Betiel <betielix at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > 2013/7/12 Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Betiel <betielix at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > What`s the matter if it is leftist or not? The question must be if it
> >> > will
> >> > be usefull and solve people problems or not. Or if basic incomes
> should
> >> > be
> >> > addressed by pirates parties or not. If you see it as a kind of human
> >> > right
> >> > I believe is a valid pirate topic.
> >> >
> >> > In Argentina we actually have basic income by law. It would be crazy
> to
> >> > try
> >> > to change that, except perhaps to ask for a change in the mount due to
> >> > inflation, so we really do not have discussions about it.
> >>
> >> Hmm - I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing - I have
> >> not heard about any country implementing the 'unconditional basic
> >> income' - or in other words 'citizen salary'.
> >
> >
> > I hope the other message I`ve send explains it better.
>
> Yes.  I would argue that minimum wage
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage) is very different from
> basic income (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income).
>
> Minimum wage is raising the bar for employment - some people say that
> it does not create unemployment but we can easily imagine minimum wage
> so high that it would, and if it is low enough - then perhaps it is
> not needed at all.  By being conditional it also adds complexity to
> the state - while basic income fulfills the humanitarian need -
> perhaps even better than minimum wage, because it covers all cases:
> the unemployed, the sick, etc. - without adding complexity.
>
> thanks for the clarification.
I confused both terms.


> Z.
>
>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Z.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Personally I believe having a basic income helps to avoid abuses from
> >> > some
> >> > unethical companies.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2013/7/12 Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>
> >> >>
> >> >> Basic income is often mentioned as point of the pirates program.  Do
> >> >> you think it is a universal thing across all pirate parties - or is
> it
> >> >> just the German pirates that stand strongly behind it?
> >> >>
> >> >> Do you think it is leftist?
> >> >>
> >> >> Personally I support Basic Income.  It might be viewed as slightly
> >> >> leftist - but if it is introduced together with a linear taxation
> >> >> scale and getting rid of unemployment benefits - then it is not
> >> >> leftist at all.  For me the most important aspect of this whole
> >> >> package is that it makes governance simpler.  Taxation is decoupled
> >> >> and can be payed independently for all income sources and the state
> is
> >> >> not forced to do things that depend too much on personal
> circumstances
> >> >> (like checking if the person is really unemployed and if he really
> >> >> tries to find a job etc) - state is not good in these - people
> quickly
> >> >> learn how to fool it and that is demoralizing.  But state is good for
> >> >> universal services - like paying everyone the same amount.  So let
> the
> >> >> state do what it is good at and let other, smaller organizations do
> >> >> other things.
> >> >>
> >> >> There are of course many other benefits as well - but this is what
> >> >> moves me personally.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Zbigniew Lukasiak
> >> >> http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
> >> >> http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
> >> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ____________________________________________________
> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Zbigniew Lukasiak
> >> http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
> >> http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Zbigniew Lukasiak
> http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
> http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
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