[pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?
Davidd van Deijk
davidd at piratenpartij.nl
Fri Jul 12 19:17:54 CEST 2013
On 07/12/13 18:52, Zbigniew Łukasiak wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Tom Behets <behets at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Some days ago, a non pirate told me her idea of the Pirate party.
>> She said pirate party is constantly co-opted by all sorts of leftist
>> interest groups to push their agenda.
>> I feel the same.
>> We should stick to our core issues.
>> If you aim for everything, you get nothing...
> So why do you think it is outside of the core issues? I see it as a
> system simplifying idea - and this feels to me as a very pirate way of
> thinking about the state.
Why i personally support basic income is:
1. privacy. if it is unconditional you dont have to proof anything to
the state except for living there. very different from benefits where
you have to show a whole bunch of stuff.
2. it frees creative people up to start their own buisness with an
assurance they dont have to starve if the buisness has some setbacks. To
do such a thing properly is nearly impossible if you have to have a
regular job next to it to pay your bills.
3. It gives people a better negotiation position when discussing wages
when accepting a job.
4. "but there will be some members of society that will be unproductive"
- what do you think these people are doing now to get their money? In
other words, this may have positive effects on crime rate as well.
>> On 12 Jul 2013 15:26, "Zbigniew Łukasiak" <zzbbyy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Basic income is often mentioned as point of the pirates program. Do
>>> you think it is a universal thing across all pirate parties - or is it
>>> just the German pirates that stand strongly behind it?
>>> Do you think it is leftist?
>>> Personally I support Basic Income. It might be viewed as slightly
>>> leftist - but if it is introduced together with a linear taxation
>>> scale and getting rid of unemployment benefits - then it is not
>>> leftist at all. For me the most important aspect of this whole
>>> package is that it makes governance simpler. Taxation is decoupled
>>> and can be payed independently for all income sources and the state is
>>> not forced to do things that depend too much on personal circumstances
>>> (like checking if the person is really unemployed and if he really
>>> tries to find a job etc) - state is not good in these - people quickly
>>> learn how to fool it and that is demoralizing. But state is good for
>>> universal services - like paying everyone the same amount. So let the
>>> state do what it is good at and let other, smaller organizations do
>>> other things.
>>> There are of course many other benefits as well - but this is what
>>> moves me personally.
>>> Zbigniew Lukasiak
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Zbigniew Lukasiak
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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