[pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?

Sun Jul 14 01:34:20 CEST 2013

Oil subsidies are not basic income, they are hush money for raping the land. It also ins't a welfare system designed to provide cost of living, in Alaska it might be enough to balance out the cost of living to the lower 48 but it's not basic income.

On 2013-07-13, at 7:29 PM, illunatic at greenpirate.org wrote:

> Ok, let's look at some successful examples of basic income. People who live in Alaska get a certain amount of money each year to allow oil companies to drill there. This is called the Alaska Permanent Fund. It is an oil-wealth trust fund where a portion of state royalties from the North Slope oil fields is used to pay citizens. In 2012, each citizen got $878. The amount has been on the decline since 2006 which was $2,069. Is this what was meant by citing Alaska as an example of basic income? It's not really so much that somebody could live on it for a year, but maybe if they had access to more oil that could improve.
> 
> Yes, all Arab Emirates nationals can have access to free education, housing, health care and other subsidized benefits. Again, this is afforded by oil money. It's also a burden of their economy's back that 75% of the population are foreigners who are essentially modern day slaves with no labor rights. If we build a system based on profiting from natural resources and exploiting laborers, I think basic income could become a realistically viable solution.
> 
> What other funding sources can we come up with so that we may all have our basic needs met without lifting a finger? We could make prostitution more widely available. Not officially legal, but keep it on the down-low. That is bound to be a lucrative industry and attract tourism. Don't get me wrong. This would only be officially sanctioned prostitution. Small time competitors would be shut down as they do in Dubai. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/16/dubai-sex-tourism-prostitution
> 
> So to recap our funding sources for the basic income plan: Oil, lack of labor rights and a rise in prostitution are proven methods for funding a sort of "basic income" model. Does anybody else have any examples of a basic income model with a viable funding source?
> 
> 
> Quoting Francisco George <francisco.george at gmail.com>:
> 
>> The PP-ES stands in favour of Basic Income.
>> 
>> Actually there are already states that have BI implented.
>> 
>> Alaska
>> Some Arab emirates, but just for their nationals(emigrants are not included)
>> 
>> 20 years ago a political party in Belgium started to defend this and got
>> some hype.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivant
>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/vivant/60132009232
>> http://www.vivanteurope.org/?lang=en
>> 
>> As he was founded by a Millionaire
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet in Belgium and due to
>> their alliance with Liberals, they have been considered a Center-right
>> movement,
>> 
>> It is classified as "Progressive Liberalism" also known as "Social
>> Liberalism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_liberalism
>> 
>> Roland Duchatelet, it's founder, was Belgian Senator from 2007 > 2011
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet
>> 
>> 
>> The mixed(french/german) public tv has a special dossier about it
>> http://future.arte.tv/fr/sujet/le-revenu-de-base-promesse-dun-avenir-meilleur
>> (sorry
>> just available in German or French)
>> 
>> 
>> 2013/7/13 <illunatic at greenpirate.org>
>> 
>>> Kind of have to agree with that as I recently cut back to two days at my
>>> current job because I need more time available to do other things which pay
>>> more. They job was more than minimum wage, but not enough to fit my lavish
>>> lifestyle (sarcasm).
>>> 
>>> Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:
>>> 
>>> Oh, yeah! Instead of being 50 units short to get to the end of the month,
>>>> people would prefer to have nothing at all. Might be an option for people
>>>> that do not accumulate fixed cost in their aim of running their life, like
>>>> mortgages and such.
>>>> 
>>>> I love intelligent comment and cheer it when I see some ;) .
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: me at travismccrea.com
>>>>> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:40:15 -0400
>>>>> To: pp.international.general@**lists.pirateweb.net<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the
>>>>> pirate ideology?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have never heard of this argument? in reality it has no basis. If a
>>>>> company was paying you less than basic income, you would just not take the
>>>>> job, or you could quit the job.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2013-07-12, at 10:06 AM, Cal. wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> > On 12 July 2013 15:38, Betiel <betielix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> Personally I believe having a basic income helps to avoid abuses from
>>>>> some
>>>>> >> unethical companies.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > It depends. A common leftist objection on basic income is that it
>>>>> > enables "unethical evil company" to offer jobs for very very very low
>>>>> > wages.
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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