[pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the pirate ideology?

Sun Jul 14 07:05:27 CEST 2013

I agree with Travis. What is a reasonable funding source for such a  
program that isn't going to depend on profit from raping the land for  
resources?

Quoting Travis McCrea <me at travismccrea.com>:

> Oil subsidies are not basic income, they are hush money for raping  
> the land. It also ins't a welfare system designed to provide cost of  
> living, in Alaska it might be enough to balance out the cost of  
> living to the lower 48 but it's not basic income.
>
> On 2013-07-13, at 7:29 PM, illunatic at greenpirate.org wrote:
>
>> Ok, let's look at some successful examples of basic income. People  
>> who live in Alaska get a certain amount of money each year to allow  
>> oil companies to drill there. This is called the Alaska Permanent  
>> Fund. It is an oil-wealth trust fund where a portion of state  
>> royalties from the North Slope oil fields is used to pay citizens.  
>> In 2012, each citizen got $878. The amount has been on the decline  
>> since 2006 which was $2,069. Is this what was meant by citing  
>> Alaska as an example of basic income? It's not really so much that  
>> somebody could live on it for a year, but maybe if they had access  
>> to more oil that could improve.
>>
>> Yes, all Arab Emirates nationals can have access to free education,  
>> housing, health care and other subsidized benefits. Again, this is  
>> afforded by oil money. It's also a burden of their economy's back  
>> that 75% of the population are foreigners who are essentially  
>> modern day slaves with no labor rights. If we build a system based  
>> on profiting from natural resources and exploiting laborers, I  
>> think basic income could become a realistically viable solution.
>>
>> What other funding sources can we come up with so that we may all  
>> have our basic needs met without lifting a finger? We could make  
>> prostitution more widely available. Not officially legal, but keep  
>> it on the down-low. That is bound to be a lucrative industry and  
>> attract tourism. Don't get me wrong. This would only be officially  
>> sanctioned prostitution. Small time competitors would be shut down  
>> as they do in Dubai.  
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/16/dubai-sex-tourism-prostitution
>>
>> So to recap our funding sources for the basic income plan: Oil,  
>> lack of labor rights and a rise in prostitution are proven methods  
>> for funding a sort of "basic income" model. Does anybody else have  
>> any examples of a basic income model with a viable funding source?
>>
>>
>> Quoting Francisco George <francisco.george at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> The PP-ES stands in favour of Basic Income.
>>>
>>> Actually there are already states that have BI implented.
>>>
>>> Alaska
>>> Some Arab emirates, but just for their nationals(emigrants are not  
>>> included)
>>>
>>> 20 years ago a political party in Belgium started to defend this and got
>>> some hype.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivant
>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/vivant/60132009232
>>> http://www.vivanteurope.org/?lang=en
>>>
>>> As he was founded by a Millionaire
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet in Belgium and due to
>>> their alliance with Liberals, they have been considered a Center-right
>>> movement,
>>>
>>> It is classified as "Progressive Liberalism" also known as "Social
>>> Liberalism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_liberalism
>>>
>>> Roland Duchatelet, it's founder, was Belgian Senator from 2007 > 2011
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duch%C3%A2telet
>>>
>>>
>>> The mixed(french/german) public tv has a special dossier about it
>>> http://future.arte.tv/fr/sujet/le-revenu-de-base-promesse-dun-avenir-meilleur
>>> (sorry
>>> just available in German or French)
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/7/13 <illunatic at greenpirate.org>
>>>
>>>> Kind of have to agree with that as I recently cut back to two days at my
>>>> current job because I need more time available to do other things  
>>>> which pay
>>>> more. They job was more than minimum wage, but not enough to fit my lavish
>>>> lifestyle (sarcasm).
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> Oh, yeah! Instead of being 50 units short to get to the end of the month,
>>>>> people would prefer to have nothing at all. Might be an option for people
>>>>> that do not accumulate fixed cost in their aim of running their  
>>>>> life, like
>>>>> mortgages and such.
>>>>>
>>>>> I love intelligent comment and cheer it when I see some ;) .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: me at travismccrea.com
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:40:15 -0400
>>>>>> To:  
>>>>>> pp.international.general@**lists.pirateweb.net<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Basic income - how does that fit into the
>>>>>> pirate ideology?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have never heard of this argument? in reality it has no basis. If a
>>>>>> company was paying you less than basic income, you would just  
>>>>>> not take the
>>>>>> job, or you could quit the job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2013-07-12, at 10:06 AM, Cal. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On 12 July 2013 15:38, Betiel <betielix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >> Personally I believe having a basic income helps to avoid abuses from
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> >> unethical companies.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > It depends. A common leftist objection on basic income is that it
>>>>>> > enables "unethical evil company" to offer jobs for very very very low
>>>>>> > wages.
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>>>>>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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