[pp.int.general] Pirates and the 5 Star Movement

[Antonio Garcia]

People everywhere are waiting for a set of sound core ideas, turning around in circles going nowhere. The whole 15M / Indignado / Occupy / Yosoy132 / ...

And the way the Pirate Parties try to function... they start well,... and they soon die due to the inertia and lack of knowledge embedded statistically in the actual all-inclusive mass dynamics that has been demonstrated overwhelmingly over the last two years in these movements.


Antonio.

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 07:22:00 +0100
> From: zzbbyy at gmail.com
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirates and the 5 Star Movement
> 
> In Poland we have Ruch Poparcia Palikota - it started with the same
> anti-establishment, slightly comedic, populist program, but it is very
> authoritarian inside.  They had a huge success last elections but now
> apparently it is falling apart because of lack of core ideas.  Palikot
> seems to lead the party where ever the polls show.  Hard to predict
> how much it will retract.  I also consider the PP-DE somehow populist.
> 
> --
> Z.
> 
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:31 PM, carlo von lynX
> <lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 03:27:03PM +0100, Cal. wrote:
> >> Youngs are a strict minority, and they're probably voting the movement,
> >> not the grillo leader???they could move any moment to a pirate party, if
> >> they're not enough brainwashed.
> >
> > I'll elaborate on that...
> >
> > M5S has done an impressive job but as Pirates it is our duty
> > to point our finger to the severe issues in M5S' internal
> > democracy.. or rather its lack of.
> >
> > It is easy to have a beautiful party programme if others are
> > writing it for you and you remain in full power to decide
> > what choices the movement actually makes.
> >
> > Our criticism is well-known within the more active among the
> > M5S activists (not necessarily the ones that comment in blogs)
> > and shared by many of them, since they brought the topic up
> > before us. We just developed our own opinion, read the statutes
> > and came to the same conclusions.
> >
> > They are all just waiting for Grillo and his staff, the
> > Casaleggio company, to fulfil the promises of making everyone
> > take part in decisions and pass the movement into the hands of
> > true grassroots, electronic or liquid democracy.
> >
> > And many important figures know that we are fighting out the
> > extremely difficult next step: being a party without a board.
> > So they are already looking at us to share our experience,
> > the good and the bad, as "uno vale uno" - each person counts
> > as one - is their essential party motto and they care very
> > much for solutions to actually make this possible.
> >
> > There are four possible scenarios:
> >
> > - Grillo fulfills his promise and the movement starts
> >   practicing what it preaches. If they're so good that they
> >   even fulfil the core pirate dreams and get rid of their
> >   populist stuff in the current programme, a merger is not out
> >   of the question.. I say merger because our statutes are
> >   more suitable to the job then theirs - and I especially
> >   mean merger in the international perspective. I know how
> >   unimportant we are on a local level.
> >
> > - Grillo does not and a relevant number of activists
> >   leaves the movement to form its own party.
> >
> > - Grillo does not and a relevant number of activists
> >   leave to join the Pirate Party because we are ahead with
> >   our liquid directorate and maybe got it working by then.
> >
> > - Grillo does not and nothing happens. I presume in that case
> >   population will soon figure out that it just elected a new
> >   Berlusconi* and look for new alternatives. And that case
> >   the race is open again, and Italy is currently *very* fluid.
> >
> >
> > *) AFAIK in 1994 Berlusconi launched his FORZA ITALIA movement
> >    in a similar way to Beppe Grillo, with a company running
> >    the party and allowing no democratic interference at all.
> >    The success was very similar. In 1994 it worked by television
> >    that Berlusconi happened to run. This time it was the Internet.
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Zbigniew Lukasiak
> http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
> http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
 		 	   		  
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