[pp.int.general] Pirates and the 5 Star Movement

[Anouk Neeteson]

Interesting article for those who like to know more about this 5 star
movement, originaly from Italian article :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/28/five-star-movement-beppe-grillo
On Mar 1, 2013 7:42 a.m., "Giulio Prisco" <giulio at gmail.com> wrote:

> Re "the severe issues in M5S' internal democracy.. or rather its lack of."
>
> I hate saying this, but I am afraid the M5S wouldn't be where it is today
> with internal democracy.
>
> Some Pirate Parties, including those in Italy (last time I checked there
> were 2) are paralyzed by lack of decision-making, internal bitchiness and
> infighting, and childish behavior on the mailing lists with
> mine-is-bigger-than-yours pissing contests and all that.
>
> I am all for internal democracy but it is a difficult game to play, with
> some learning required.
>
> In the meantime I hope Beppe Grillo will kick some ass in Italy, and kick
> it hard.
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:31 PM, carlo von lynX <
> lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 03:27:03PM +0100, Cal. wrote:
>> > Youngs are a strict minority, and they're probably voting the movement,
>> > not the grillo leader???they could move any moment to a pirate party, if
>> > they're not enough brainwashed.
>>
>> I'll elaborate on that...
>>
>> M5S has done an impressive job but as Pirates it is our duty
>> to point our finger to the severe issues in M5S' internal
>> democracy.. or rather its lack of.
>>
>> It is easy to have a beautiful party programme if others are
>> writing it for you and you remain in full power to decide
>> what choices the movement actually makes.
>>
>> Our criticism is well-known within the more active among the
>> M5S activists (not necessarily the ones that comment in blogs)
>> and shared by many of them, since they brought the topic up
>> before us. We just developed our own opinion, read the statutes
>> and came to the same conclusions.
>>
>> They are all just waiting for Grillo and his staff, the
>> Casaleggio company, to fulfil the promises of making everyone
>> take part in decisions and pass the movement into the hands of
>> true grassroots, electronic or liquid democracy.
>>
>> And many important figures know that we are fighting out the
>> extremely difficult next step: being a party without a board.
>> So they are already looking at us to share our experience,
>> the good and the bad, as "uno vale uno" - each person counts
>> as one - is their essential party motto and they care very
>> much for solutions to actually make this possible.
>>
>> There are four possible scenarios:
>>
>> - Grillo fulfills his promise and the movement starts
>>   practicing what it preaches. If they're so good that they
>>   even fulfil the core pirate dreams and get rid of their
>>   populist stuff in the current programme, a merger is not out
>>   of the question.. I say merger because our statutes are
>>   more suitable to the job then theirs - and I especially
>>   mean merger in the international perspective. I know how
>>   unimportant we are on a local level.
>>
>> - Grillo does not and a relevant number of activists
>>   leaves the movement to form its own party.
>>
>> - Grillo does not and a relevant number of activists
>>   leave to join the Pirate Party because we are ahead with
>>   our liquid directorate and maybe got it working by then.
>>
>> - Grillo does not and nothing happens. I presume in that case
>>   population will soon figure out that it just elected a new
>>   Berlusconi* and look for new alternatives. And that case
>>   the race is open again, and Italy is currently *very* fluid.
>>
>>
>> *) AFAIK in 1994 Berlusconi launched his FORZA ITALIA movement
>>    in a similar way to Beppe Grillo, with a company running
>>    the party and allowing no democratic interference at all.
>>    The success was very similar. In 1994 it worked by television
>>    that Berlusconi happened to run. This time it was the Internet.
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>
>
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