[pp.int.general] VIlfredo goes to Athens. /era Re: Liquid Democracy - a summary attempt

[Zbigniew Łukasiak]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 10:14 PM, carlo von lynX
<lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 09:49:13PM +0200, Cal. wrote:
>> Il 28/apr/2014 21:01 "carlo von lynX" <lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org> ha
>> scritto:
>> > Too frequently I hear people say something like the toaster
>> > burnt my bread so I throw it away and use the microwave instead.
>>
>> You sound more like a "guns don't kill people" activist.
>> Voting makes fight. You don't get away from that.
>
> No, lack of discipline and common vision and good-heartedness
> makes people fight and voting subsequently fail. Why did it
> work in Berlin? Because we weren't a**holes to each other.
> Because we weren't pulling out the guns. I am a "guns kill
> people" activist and I'm promoting the idea of banning guns
> in Pirate Parties.
>
> What I mean by that is for example to proactively intervene
> when people put on fighting tones on mailing lists or when
> they shitstorm on Twitter. Not just intervene because we are
> nice but intervene because there is rule of law whithin the
> party. Currently there isn't, and we are bleeding out because
> people are shooting with guns all the time and no-one stops
> them.
>
>> Moreover, we saw that your dear liquid makes no difference between neonazi
>> minorities and legitimate ones, both unheard in the same identical way.
>> That is plainly unacceptable.
>
> Incorrect. Minorities get weeks of debating time to bring
> forward all the facts that should make the majority understand
> the issue from their point of view.
>
> Of course that doesn't work if everyone is busy shooting with
> guns instead of empathically reading proposals from minorities.
>
> So I keep saying, it's not the software that is failing.
> It's the lack of rules in our digital political party.

But tools do suggest some social practices. They don't force people -
but they suggest.  You can fight it with training etc - but you cannot
say that software has no influence at all on the outcome.

-- 
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/