[pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?

Thu Jun 5 21:53:25 CEST 2014

Dear Betiel,

I agree with with you that the CoA doings and undoings concern us all.
However, I don't think this is really the issue here. This matter has been
already thoroughly discussed in the past years several times in this same
list. I think the problem starts when you realise that it's not a
discussion, but just a monologue. Then most people trying to explain their
point of view gets tired of a discussion that they feel useless, and
simply stop arguing.

The claim that the submission of Pirates de Catalunya was filled late, is
completely false. Otherwise, the board wouldn't have accepted it... (and I
must add) obviously.  :P

We submitted a request to change our membership and also proposed several
alternative statutes changes, both. We thought that the statutes were
insensitive to the different realities on how pirates want to (or
can) organise in each state and thought (think) that every pirate community
should be free to organise as they feel it's more efficient (or as their
law allows them to). It was not only about us and the complex reality in
Spanish politics or how we want to organise, there are countries where it
is very difficult to fund a statewide party unless you have first parties
in each region, which makes it virtually impossible for pirates in those
countries to join the PPI as full members, regardless of how active and
successful they are. We wanted to change the statutes to allow
more flexibility for everyone, not only for us.

It was possible to send the membership submission by email to the board or
to fill the wiki directly, and we did the first on the 16th of March of
2012 at 13.41 h, within the standard deadline. During the GA we realised
that we were not called at any point to present our party in front of the
assembly for the voting (although we were doubtful whether they were
counting on us to present or not, because we were already a member, so it
was only a membership change). When we realised that they were not counting
on us, we note it to the board, they realised their mistake and fixed it
immediately.

I will gladly answer in private any questions you might have.

Greetings,

         Muriel

2014-06-05 20:19 GMT+02:00 Betiel <betielix at gmail.com>:

> I totally disagree.
> If the court of arbitration was not working properly, it concerns all of
> us. Therefore is not a matter for a private conversation.
>
> Betiel
>
>
> 2014-06-05 14:06 GMT-03:00 Andrianos Pappas <adrian.ppgr at gmail.com>:
>
> Wtf, this is all stuff for personal correspondence and talks, not for
>> international lists.
>> So if you could all just stfu, and focus on real life things, such as
>> #resetthenet, it'd be awesome.
>>
>> On June 5, 2014 7:53:03 PM EEST, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 18:36:18 +0200
>>> > From: zzbbyy at gmail.com
>>> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in
>>> organizing this movement?
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:44 PM, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > Jesus, can I talk to someone competent?
>>> > >
>>> > > Do I really have to spell everything out not to waste six months
>>> explaining
>>> > > the obvious?
>>> > >
>>> > > Can I take obvious things for obvious, or am I still talking in
>>> > > KinderGarten?
>>> >
>>> > I can see you are very frustrated - but I don't quite understand what
>>> > you are referring to - sorry.
>>> >
>>> > Are you disagreeing with me - or with someone else in this thread?
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > I meant the FIRST ruling of the CoA ABOUT Pirates d e Catalunya full
>>>
>>> > > membership, which is the subject WE were talking about. Not the
>>> first ever
>>> > > ruling of that particular class of Court of Arbitration.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > OK - I was also talking about this case - so I guess that burst of
>>> > frustration was about something else.
>>>
>>> No, you weren't, damnit...
>>>
>>> "Right - the Court of Arbitration ruling was wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> But in fact the CoA could not rule that the very GA that elected them
>>>
>>>
>>> is invalid. The only ruling it could logically do is to rule that this
>>> is outside of its competence. And the current one also cannot nullify
>>> the chain of events that lead to its election - because it would also
>>>
>>> make itself invalid and thus also the very decision."
>>>
>>>
>>> That was about the supposition that the CoA can not rule as invalid the
>>> occasion at which it has been elected because then it would rule itself
>>> invalid. A very
>>> simplistic line of thought in itself that has however
>>> nothing to do with the ruling about the catalans.
>>>
>>> Be more accurate, more inteligent, more competent. Or let somebody with
>>> more cualifications handle this.
>>>
>>>
>>> There is too much really basic stuff you do not seem to understand or
>>> even pay attention to. You are not being a good ambassador for the
>>> Pirate cause.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > > Thay one Court of Arbitration has proven to be absolutely
>>> incompetent, all
>>> > > the way, in even the most trivial of rulings.
>>> > >
>>> > > By the way, the spokesperson for the actual one is not showing much
>>> aptitude
>>> > > either, reading his comments:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> http://samedokan.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/when-pirates-do-prefer-censorship/
>>> > >
>>> > > And I am still kept waiting. Luckily, I reduced possible damage to a
>>> minimum
>>> > > as only Julia Reda got a seat in the European Parliament... results
>>> could
>>> > > have been far better if I had worked towards good results rather than
>>> > > against because nobody left me better options.
>>> >
>>> > So you admit that you are working against pirate parties political
>>> success?
>>>
>>> You are a very bad craftsman trying to get a confession for the #Pirate
>>> #Inquisition :(.
>>>
>>> I have already said what I have said, and done what I have done.
>>>
>>>
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Z.
>>> > ____________________________________________________
>>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
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