[pp.int.general] Ukraine

Wed Mar 5 19:39:59 CET 2014

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It's a very clear and comprehensive report, thank you. I was looking
for this kind of report since several weeks.

> I know the Pirate Party of
> the Ukraine also distributed leaflets and tried to get people out to
> demonstrate with slogans like "I am not pro-Europe, I am just
> anti-corruption, I'm fed up, I need to pay school for my child to get
> education. I am fed up of paying bribes to my doctor to get a medical
> treatment".
I think that Pirate Party position and the call to calm down is quite
hard to defend. I personally agree with that, but to me it is clear
that reasoning is not how large groups of people work, and sadly the
multitude (and their underlying ideology) is who legitimate political
decisions.

The Pirate Party from Argentina emitted a press release about the
Venezuela's situation. We strongly condemned and rejected violence from
both sides, government and extreme-right, and we encouraged people to
go out and pacifically ask for what they think it's a better country.

But people do not work like that.

People read mass media, listen opinions from their partners, eat all
that political crap that takes ideology as a tool to impress and gain
more and more political capital to defend pure selfish interests.

Anyway, I'm happy that other Pirate Parties also have a critical
perspective from these hard times, when the challenge is to not take
part of the political war and try to get closer to people. It's a very
very hard job because people is quite blind, but I'm confident that
finally they will understand that there's a way out from a crisis just
getting involved and empowering social rights expansion, transparency
and control over governments from the bottom.

Matías

On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 17:45:01 +0100
Jelena Jovanovic <jelena.the.one at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_03/Russia-has-a-natural-interest-in-the-peaceful-development-of-Ukraine-expert-6519/
> 
> in case you haven't see.
> Its very good intw.
> 
> he BBC reported the Right Sector group was the organizer of the most
> vehement protest rallies in Ukraine. In your opinion, why are Western
> politicians turning a blind eye to the fact that many radical
> militants, including from abroad, fought in Maidan protests in
> central Kiev?
> 
> The reports about militant support of the right sector are being
> mainly reported by the Russian media and Russian media reported that
> wide area of other supporters on the Maidan including students, the
> young parents, all the people who are fed up with all the corruption
> and who needed a change of the system were forcing president
> Yanukovich to resign. So, this is I think in Russia media a little
> bit less aggregated, the influence of the tribe sector, and these
> protests have been much more broad. I think the western media
> aggregated it a little bit more pro-European aspect of this protest
> which has been mainly anti-corruption and people wanted a change of a
> system. So, I wouldn't take this fact that the western media and the
> western politicians are ignoring for no the report of the militant
> support of the far right sector too seriously and in fact many sited
> today also that Russia has started some kind of informational war to
> try and discredit the newly Ukrainian authorities that are trying to
> solve the mess that is currently happening.
> 
> Some of these mercenaries are reportedly threatening the interim
> government officials with violence. How would you comment on this? Is
> it possible to restore order and stability in a deeply-divided
> country under such circumstances?
> 
> It is very few reports right now, and I think if people have been
> really threatened especially the officials that are trying to
> interact with each other and trying to find the consensus inside the
> country, if that would be really true, it would be much wider and
> much clearer reports about that. There have been also reports about
> mistreatment of oppositional leaders in the process of protests. A
> lot of people have gone missing and been tortured. So, this is all
> not to overestimate. It is a complicated time right now but I
> wouldn't think that the government is controlled now by some strange
> forces. It sounds a little bit like a conspiracy theory. I wouldn't
> believe it.
> 
> A leader of the Right Sector, Dmitry Yarosh, has appealed for help
> from Russia's most wanted terrorist Doku Umarov. His address posted
> on the social network VKontakte points out that many Ukrainians with
> arms in their hands supported Chechen militants in their fight
> against Russians, and now it's time to support Ukraine. How would you
> comment on these statements?
> 
> Dmitry Yarosh is clearly a dangerous man. He is a head of some part of
> militant right wing association and luckily they are a very small
> fraction of the protestors that went to the Euromaidan and he is
> fighting to get attention at every price. He is a self-proclaimed
> leader, I don't think that many people support the far right. This is
> the danger that they could unite and be something moderate. But
> actually calling internationally sought terrorist for help will not
> help him at all and everybody who had any illusions that he is acting
> in the interest of Ukraine, are now seeing clearly that this guy is
> only seeking attention and this will not lead to anything. Three days
> ago he reportedly met also with Jewish-Israel pro-militants and he is
> trying to get attention. Nobody knows if Umarov is still alive since
> he has not shown any sign of life for a couple months now.
> 
> What do you think of reports that Euromaidan was sponsored by the
> West?
> 
> Sponsored by whom?
> 
> By the west, by NATO forces and Europe in general.
> 
> It is clearly not entirely true. There might be some cases of
> support. I wouldn't exclude that but basically most people went to
> Maidan not because they were paid by anybody or anything but actually
> because people are totally fed up with the current life they had and
> needed a change and also felt like after revolution of 2004 they have
> been betrayed by the results. They are not seeing anything have
> changed since than. Since the government changed its mind about what
> clearly seems to be like a majority decision and showed themselves to
> be corrupt, they went to the street and I know the Pirate Party of
> the Ukraine also distributed leaflets and tried to get people out to
> demonstrate with slogans like "I am not pro-Europe, I am just
> anti-corruption, I'm fed up, I need to pay school for my child to get
> education. I am fed up of paying bribes to my doctor to get a medical
> treatment". So, this is what drives the people to get out to the
> street. There is no big scheme of financial support by some
> illuminati who tried to destabilize the region.
> 
> What can be done right now to eradicate extremism in Ukraine?
> 
> What needs to be done is that everybody needs a little bit to calm
> down and understand that Russia of course has a natural interest in
> the development of Ukraine and Ukraine is also geographically between
> Russia and Europe and it can't be taken separately, taken to one side
> or another. It needs to be both. We need to talk with Russia and we
> also need to understand that Russia of course has an interest in
> protecting interests in the region and also it should not be talking
> about Russia but talking with Russia and it is clear that Russia is
> executing a plan that has already been long set how to react if
> things get out of hand, so they are executing it very precisely and
> exact. I am very surprised that western politicians didn't have a
> counter-plan in the suitcase that they could pull and react to that.
> Instead it seems like people are running like chicken without
> thinking. People should definitely start thinking instead of trying
> to escalate it more than it needs to be done.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 3:54 AM, Andreas Czák
> <Sonstwer at piratenpartei.at>wrote:
> 
> >
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> > Hi,
> > has anyone of you got reliable informations from the ukraine?
> > Is there someone from the Pirate Party of the Ukraine on this
> > Mailinglist?
> >
> > Sincerly
> > Andreas Czák "Sonstwer"
> >
> > Member of the International Delegates PPAT
> > @Sonstwer
> > https://www.facebook.com/sonstwer.piratenpartei
> >
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> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >

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