[pp.int.general] Worrying tendency regarding our message board policies

Anouk jakobsheep at gmail.com
Wed May 14 11:23:03 CEST 2014

Ok now you gave an indication what your angle is, i'll deconstruct your
initial mail to explain my reaction.

On 13 May 2014 15:16, <hyazinthe at emailn.de> wrote:

> Hi folks, I'm noticing a worrying tendency across the pirate party message
> boards;
> I see it in Austria, I see it in the UK, and now also in Sweden: Message
> boards got locked down;
> only fully accessable for official, paying members; probably in order to
> avoid vandalism.

Agreed stating facts, but you already give the indication where the
problems is originating from.
But instead of elaborating the (possible) problem you divert to another

> When you see such development, please play your role and take action
> against it;
> international cooperation is extremely handicapped, when the opportunity
> is abolished, that everyone
> is able to address a mass medium of a pirate party in order to have
> constructive exchange with
> the pirate party basis.

Here you talk about a problem that got nothing to do with your initial
issue. The virtual non-existence of an (official) international pirate
party communication platform is something that needs to be addressed and
you are actually contributing to the disinformation. (I understand not
intentionally which is even worse)

> Additionally this locking down is completely against a very unique and
> positive quality, some pirate
> parties have and what distinguishes them from all other political parties:
> It's this liquid, barrier-free, open access
> to the pirate party, it's this "it doesn't matter, if you're member; you
> can do everything without membership
> as long as you don't want to vote on party conventions or the resolution
> systems of the pirate party";
> this attitude is pure expression of putting proper political work in the
> center of our acting instead
> success of us as a political party; and it's pure expression of us as
> being not only a political party,
> but also an activists movement.
> I also don't see how closed club culture goes hand in hand with our open
> access principle...

Restriction is /not/ the same as locking down. As an example the french
pirate party is structured in local sections. Some of these local sections
have a second mailing-list /for members only/. I do not see this in
contradiction with the pirate principles which also values pragmatism.
Which brings me to your own idea/assumption that "the pirate (activist's)
movement" and the "pirate (political) parties" are the same.
This is fundamentally wrong due to the legal form of being a political
party (you are by law restricted in your activism). Yes, this party
'construction' has the /intention/ to bring activism into politics but they
are not /the same/. Please don't confuse idealism with reality (its a
shitty world, I know)

> I mean... just explain me, how, for instance, crucial information flow
> between the pirate party basis of
> the pirate parties across the world is supposed to happen, if we don't
> chose a structure for us, which
> enables every person, to head for our pirate party basis effortlessly and
> fast for verbal exchange.
> I just don't see it. Is one supposed to place his information here on this
> mailing list and asking all
> readers for forwarding the information into the mass medium of his country
> pirate party ?
> If one does so, do people here in practice really act like this then ?

What is there to explain ?
Public regional/national mailing lists versus International communication
Is the problem here not the (dis)functioning/absence of the international
coordination ?
You already gave the answer but instead you rant on about local mailing
Has it not been discussed again and again on this very mailing list that
there should be 'real' international list ?

> A charming solution would be, that all message boards of the pirate
> parties across the world each would
> be staffed with a "global section", which is connected to all other
> "global sections" of all the pirate
> party message boards, so that this "global section" is the window of all
> pirate parties of the world to
> one central point for borderless global coordination... well, but that's
> future music...

No it is not even future music, it is completely unrealistic *unless* the
whole world suddenly speaks English and fully understanding this language.
Given the fact that a large majority not even properly understands their
own language this is not going to happen.

> I know that we don't have a very sophisticated international communication
> structure – yet ;) –
> facing this, I just think it's not a good idea, to make it worse than it
> still is.

Wrong again, proper communication and sharing information are not the same.

> Greetings,
> / aka Oliver

Since you give no indication what your involvement is, I gave a general
advice on broadcasting out loud is not very helpful and actually
communicating directly with those problem areas /is/ helpful.
And in this context to show everybody I /am/ actually involved pro-actively
with the pirate movement I mentioned (one of) my jobs : Treasurer of the
Parti Pirate (France)
Since you 'revealed' yourself as also being actively involved I give you
the decency to fully reply with this mail.

So finally I take back my general advise to you I outed before (DO
something) and have changed it into :Do not confuse the one with the other

I still do not understand that telling the truth would be flaming but I
guess that got to do with not being capable of separating the own emotions
(ego) and facts.

Anouk Neeteson
member of the international team of the parti pirate (France)
note: because also the french international team is barely functioning ATM
I did not mention it before since I feel it is a bit inappropriate, next to
the fact the /only/ times I mention my relation with the pirates when it is

Have a nice day Oliver, hope to here a lot from you in the future ;)
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