[pp.int.general] Recent events involving PPI

Mon Mar 9 11:29:44 CET 2015

Sadly, I can tell you EXACTLY which is the driving force behind that trend. And actually, it is not being considered at all.

It is even destroying PP-DE at the moment ;(.

Antonio.

From: jens.stomber at piratenpartei.de
To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2015 00:07:22 +0100
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Recent events involving PPI

Hi Andrew,

there are three things that you can do regarding PPI:
1. love it
2. change it
3. leave it

Please make a decision and act accordingly. Do you represent any of PPI´s 
members at the moment? Do you take any responsibilities in PPI? if not, please 
stop arguing with Thomas and Gregory. Trolling is not a solution if you can´t 
get enough support for your arguments.

The pirate movement has unfortunately moved into a negative trend (Iceland 
seems to be the only exception). Hitting the PPI board aside of the official 
processes (GA, board meetings, motions, etc.) will even harm us more. Please 
keep calm and constructive and stop this shitstorm!

-- 
Jens Stomber - Pirate Party Germany
http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Benutzer:ZombB
mobile: +49-151-54828237 \o\ zrtp: zombb at ostel.co
e-mail: jens.stomber at piratenpartei.de /o/ key id: 0x6951B4FA
fingerprint: D331 9041 7DCB 4779 C0D1 FCA0 7EDE 42DB 6951 B4FA
jabber: zombb at jabber.ccc.de \o\ twitter: @ZombBi

councillor of the European Pirate Party /o/ https://europeanpirates.eu/
coordinator squad nsa-scandal \o\ http://is.gd/stopnsa

Am Freitag, 6. März 2015, 17:51:26 schrieb Andrew Norton:
> On 3/6/2015 5:04 PM, Thomas Gaul wrote:
> > Hi Andrew!
> > 
> > Your are an artist. A great one! So YMMD!
> > 
> > And sorry for laughing aloud about your derailing tonight.
> 
> You call it derailing - many of us call it "rational debate on the facts
> concerning the activities a group that purports to speak for us all"
> 
> If you don't like being called out on shit, then don't do shitty things.
> 
> > Or using your wording from today on a different channel:
> > 
> > " if SWeden and iceland leave, I think ppi will be finished
> > they're two 'big' parties (one the founder, the other the only one in a
> > national parliament on its own terms)"
> > 
> > Your intention is obvious. Bye bye!
> 
> Yes, my intention IS obvious, it's never been anything but. My intention
> is, and always has been to make PPI best achieve it's goals. At present,
> I think EVERYONE can see it's not.
> 
> You seem to think that the Board = PPI, and therefore if you're against
> the Board, you're against PPI. I wouldn't have an issue if you went
> about things COMPETENTLY, but instead it's all selfishly. PURE
> Dunning-kruger.
> 
> What other 'intent' do you ascribe? That I'm somehow using my wily
> influence to infiltrate and subvert the PPI? As the PPUK's international
> coordinator said when Gregory made those claims against me a short time
> ago, I'm not that persuasive., and I didn't need to be. Every member of
> the UK Board gets the leaders lists, and I think the party executive did
> too. I think it's ok to say now that there was only one dissenting voice
> out of all of them for leaving, and that includes many who have dealt
> personally with you. The lone dissenter voted no because they didn't
> think the specifics of the proposal matches the referenced data, but
> they did have significant questions over recent PPI Board activities.
> 
> I didn't do anything except propose the vote, I didn't have to. You, as
> a board, did it far better than any outsider possibly could.
> 
> And yes, I know you're on #ppi.
> 
> > Thanks anyway for you help to PPI before it had been founded. My filter is
> > active again on this specific mailing list.
> > 
> > (Get a life would be the appropriate saying - no I don't say it.)
> > 
> > I wish you all the best in life! LLAP
> > 
> > Thomas
> > (being here on my own - which is allowed for you as you stated but not for
> > others)
> 
> Oh, you're more than welcome to say things 'on your own behalf'. You
> don't get the ability to pick and choose between being PPI 'chief admin
> officer', and PP-DE representative to PPI though, because the statutes
> specifically state you can't. The wording is about as clear as it's
> possible to be. So either you know that, and don't care, in which case
> you're not exactly a suitable person to hold such a role; or you have
> difficulty understanding such a concept in which case you're not
> competent to fulfil the role.
> 
> I have to admit, I really did think it was the former, but as time goes
> on, evidence is mounting that it's the latter.
> 
> As for me, I understood the intent behind the rule. You can't represent
> the international movement as a whole AND a national/regional movement
> to that international group.
> Even if there is no actual bias, it gives the impression of bias to the
> other members. Conversely, the state party will be less likely to get a
> report that may be critical, because it's unlikely they will criticize
> themself.
> It's a lose-lose all around, and it doesn't matter even if there is no
> bias, just the implication or appearance of bias can be as detrimental.
> Especially in an organisation whose founding principles is supposed to
> be against that.
> 
> In fact I understood it so well, that when I did take over PPI, the
> first thing I did was resign my position with USPP, because I didn't
> want to give the impression that USPP activities would influence any
> actions.
> 
> So the better question is this - why is it so important for both you,
> and Gregory, to retain your positions as PP-DE's international
> coordinators?
> 
> Doubt we'll get any answer to that though.
> 
> --
> Andrew Norton
> http://ktetch.co.uk
> Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

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