[pp.int.general] My thoughts at present

[Paul Tidwell]

I am enjoying your owning of Milton Friedman and the neoliberal ideologues.
In particular because I signed up For Grantcoin and am already receiving it
but i'm trying to figure out how to get it set up and people talk about how
a UBI would be inflationary and would "erase" all the benefits via the
inflation mechanism but this is a really  really dumb view of economics.
One of the key problems I have with Econ right now is most of the market
that's out there as well as voting public still essentially believes that
Currency derives it's value from it's scarcity as a currency and that's the
only thing that generates the actual value of the currency itself.  So
essentially the Quantity theory money is getting in the way and since most
of the public uncritically accepting the quantity theory of money they're
voting as if it's true.  But there's a lot of Data out there now that such
that it's not true and while there are some correlations between an
expanding money supply and inflationary forces it's not proportional  so if
Scarcity of the money were only thing driving it's value it would
necessarily have to be porportional inflation but all the empirical data
now shows that it isn't so there is only one logical conclusion available
to the scientific method which is that there has to be a variable that's
been excluded in that view. Quantity of money doesn't determine it's value
alone.

http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2010/07/quantity-theory-of-money-critique.html

Meaning it's possible to expand the money supply without devaluing the
currency by as much as you expanded it.

But I would go further in that the "neoliberal" view that you're
criticizing here:  http://my.pages.de/outcomunisten

It basically says that it would "Delete the benefit to the poor" by causing
inflation which seems to be what Milton Friedman's calculations suggest
that on balance inflation would end up yielding no benefit to the poor
because prices would just rise proportional to the unconditional money that
was now in the system.

1. It's already in the system now. And in particular Cryptocurrency has a
way of interacting with the main economy, It may take a few hoops to jump
through but grantcoin and other cryptocurrencies can eventually be
exchanged back into the dollar. So we already have ONE cryptocurrency
offering a universal basic income and there will probably be more to come
over time.

2. It treats inflation as the biggest enemy in society and to the economy
and to the market which ??? Why?  People say inflation hurts the poor but
the people saying this are ignoring the fact that it hurts the Banks and
Creditors far more. People who LEND money are harmed FAR more by it because
it screws up their  returns by insuring that what their loans get paid back
with is now worth less.

3. Inflation isn't the biggest problem out there.   In fact right now it
isn't much of a problem at all. Unemployment as well as underemployment and
employees who are overqualified for their positions are a mcuh bigger
problem at present.




On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 1:16 PM, carlo von lynX <lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org
> wrote:

> On 10/24/2016 06:55 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
> > Many say that part of the cause is a desire to find someone to feel
> > superior to.
>
> Yes! A common theme in all sorts of thug groups and right-wing
> organizations - finding a sense of purpose in the pride of being
> of a certain race or descent to compensate the challenge of real
> life being bitter and harsh possiby, or just plain boring.
>
> I don't know if we can do a lot politically regarding the boring
> bit, but an unconditional basic income could alleviate the harsh
> and bitter if basic survival is nothing you need to worry about,
> not even if people are migrating into your country.
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 08:29:53AM -0700, Paul Tidwell wrote:
> > For clarification do you think robots are going to  fundamentally change
> > the market order?
>
> Depending on the definition of "market order" the change is already
> taking place, or, if you by "order" mean the necessity to reform
> the economic system, then no - robots won't do that for us.
>
> > Like it will take people's jobs and it won't create new ones because
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU?
>
> Yes, that clip is fundamental and the book from Federico Pistono
> this is based on is pivotal. He's also one of the few folks who
> got the UBI reasoning right, because he's good at being strictly
> rational. Started out doubting that UBI can work out, then found
> the data compelling. The net is full of video clips from this guy.
> Go and enjoy.
>
> I also worked on the topic of UBI, mostly within the Italian pirates
> forums, but was recently asked to translate some of it and now I'm
> getting invited to a conference in Amsterdam on that good old topic..  ;)
>
>     How Criticism of Unconditional Basic Income stands on False Data
>         http://my.pages.de/davidhfreedman
>
>     Let's try the Unconditional Basic Outcome, then
>         http://my.pages.de/outcomunisten
>
> and the one that arose from a discussion on this mailing list years ago:
>
>     Options for a Cumulative Unconditional Basic Income
>         http://my.pages.de/unconditional
>
> My harshest criticism goes out to this new spin to manipulate the
> public opinion into thinking that there will be New Jobs to replace
> the old ones while The Future of Jobs Report 2016 from the World
> Economic Forum suggests the contrary.
>
> On 10/24/2016 10:57 PM, Paul Tidwell wrote:
> > I have no idea of contextualizing how much good I did you guys but it
> > would be nice to have some clue what  I bought the party.
>
> I have a vague feeling we are related to immi.is...
> you probably did some good to something good.
>
>
> --
>   E-mail is public! Talk to me in private using encryption:
>          http://loupsycedyglgamf.onion/LynX/
>           irc://loupsycedyglgamf.onion:67/lynX
>          https://psyced.org:34443/LynX/
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
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>
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