[pp.int.general] where is the manifesto?

[Florian Lauté]

I think this discussion is not a constructive one for PP (or PPI like you
want).

Please use private mail to do that, not on the mailing list. Some of us
don't read anymore the mails sent throw the ML because of that kind of
discussion.

Sorry for my english which is not perfect, this is one of the reason why it
is difficult to read "all" the mails ......

Keep on mid that a clear debate, without animosity will be more important
for each one of us than that.

Florian Lauté from "Parti Pirate Français" (PPFR)

2009/1/5 Carlos Ayala Vargas <aiarakoa at yahoo.es>

> Reinier Bakels wrote:
>
>> 1. I don't think a private conversation was appropriate. I always talked
>> about the substance - even if you sometimes thought I did not. If I say "you
>> are wrong", than I don't mean that I blame you for making a mistake, but
>> that I have a different view (wich could be a fact or an opinion).
>>
> And, /of course/, if you make contradictions -like calling me
> /fifthcolumnist/ and PPI /fundamentalist/ at the same time-, or plain
> insults -like /stupid/-, or other defamations -like /radical/-, you would
> just have been /creative/ in your descriptions. Haven't you been? Come on.
>
>> 2. My "denial" is essential. Being insulting or scornful requires the
>> *intent* to do so (or at least "dolus eventualis" - I don't know the term in
>> English), and if I say that it is NOT my intent, *you have to accept that as
>> a fact*.
>>
> That would require me trusting your statement. If you /apologize/ in one
> mail while, in the same mail, continue calling /radicals/ all those who
> doesn't give up in demanding our goals -by the way, you considered our goals
> as /esoteric/! (your mail: 4-XII-09, 10:14)-, believe me: I don't trust your
> excuses.
>
>> Even when I called you a "fifth column" at some time, that was about your
>> opinions.
>> A "fifth column" - as you know - is some who works for the "ennemy". Which
>> was perfectly appropriate
>>
> Me, working for the pro-copyright lobby? Your excuses cannot be trustable
> when you continue defamating me again, and again. Can anyone find serious to
> say in the same mail "/and if I say that it is NOT my intent/ (to insult
> me)/, *you have to accept that as a fact*/", and "/even when I called you a
> 'fifth column'/ [...] */was perfectly appropriate/*". I'm not here to be
> insulted, moderate yourself.
>
>> And, frankly, my patience is not infinite.
>>
> I have no doubt on that; actually I find it quite finite -from the first
> mails you have used that stuff I wholeheartedly reject-.
>
>> This morning I tried another shock effect, calling you "amusing". *Should
>> I use even stronger words* to clarify my point?
>>
> What is this? Do you even dare to open & publicly menace me with further
> insults? This is new. Hope that insulting in this PPI list cannot be for
> free. So now, Reinier, just debate within the limits of politeness; nobody
> prevents you from debating, simply I won't tolerate that stuff from you.
>
>
>
>                  Carlos Ayala
>
>                  ( Aiarakoa )
>
>
> Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>



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