[pp.int.general] pp.international.general Digest, Vol 46, Issue 32
星佳谢
sosasker at gmail.com
Sun Dec 5 04:37:12 CET 2010
i want to know how i can use it...
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 4:25 AM, <
pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Media stupidity Re: Pirate support for Wikileaks
> (Mikko S?rel?)
> 2. Re: Media stupidity Re: Pirate support for Wikileaks (Jay
> Emerson)
> 3. Re: Media stupidity Re: Pirate support for Wikileaks
> (Erik L?nroth)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 20:58:40 +0200 (EET)
> From: Mikko S?rel? <msarela at cc.hut.fi>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Media stupidity Re: Pirate support for
> Wikileaks
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1012042054360.15458 at kosh.hut.fi>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>
> I would not mention Julian Assange or the accusations in the text at all.
> The real issue is that governments around the world are trying to shut
> down an organization that helps whistleblowers publish information.
>
> Concentrate on that - otherwise we will allow ourselves to be quagmired
> into a fight we cannot win.
>
> So, concentrate on the freedom of speech. Governments are not trying to
> shut down Wikileaks because Julian Assange has been accused of sexual
> crime.
>
> A word in general: you will only get so many sentences through in a given
> old media outlet. If the focus of the statement is divided between the
> accusations of sexual crimes and the freedom of speech issue, you can only
> lose. There is nothing to gain there. Nothing.
>
> -Mikko
>
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010, Amelia Andersdotter wrote:
> > If there is any possibility of not sinking to Murdoch/Bonniers levels,
> that
> > is good.
> >
> > Never argue with idiots - they will only bring you down to their level.
> >
> > On 4 December 2010 19:22, Jay Emerson <jemers2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, comparison to Murdoch's empire will make it easier for
> > them to swallow and understand.
> >
> > Jay Emerson
> > Administrative Officer
> > Pirate Party of New York
> >
> > On Dec 4, 2010 1:17 PM, "Amelia Andersdotter" <teirdes at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On 4 December 2010 19:02, Jay Emerson <jemers2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Good speech, I'll do research on the media conglomerates that may
> > be
> > >> influencing such spin at these publications and shine a light on
> > them
> > >> through the superpowers of blog syndication.
> > >>
> > >> If you know who owns that publication let me know please :-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > > I can already help you with that.
> > http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressen
> > >
> > > Expressen is owned by the Bonnier conglomerat which owns about 80%
> > of all
> > > Swedish media, including Dagens Nyheter and Sydsvenskan, the two
> > largest
> > > publications after Svenska dagbladet and Aftonbladet one of which is
> > owned
> > > by Schibstedt (Norwegian conglomerate which holds large stakes in
> > Norwegian
> > > media I believe) and LO (the union of most public worker labour
> > unions).
> > >
> > > All Bonnier publications are going down. Expressen and Dagens
> > nyheter have
> > > been going tabloid since several years ago, and Bonnier is more and
> > more
> > > appearing to imitate the Murdoch empire. I'm not really sure what to
> > do
> > > about that though - I know that the non-Bonnier publications are
> > mostly held
> > > afloat by the Swedish media support system (which, to be fair, also
> > helps
> > > Bonnier) which has recently been condemned by the European Court of
> > Justice
> > > for distorting the market. Mark my words - when it goes, so do all
> > > non-Bonnier publications.
> > >
> > > /a
> > >
> > >
> > >> Jay Emerson
> > >> Administrative Officer
> > >> Pirate Party of New York
> > >> On Dec 4, 2010 12:29 PM, "Amelia Andersdotter" <teirdes at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> > If something can be said about the current situation of Wikileaks
> > founder
> > >> > Julian Assange it is that a Swedish newspaper, Expressen, has
> > consistenly
> > >> > and deliberately published names and pictures of people who are
> > not yet
> > >> > convicted, and to whom a primary investigation have not even been
> > >> started.
> > >> >
> > >> > This is the third time Expressen has engaged in this conduct
> > since 2006.
> > >> The
> > >> > difference this time is that very few paper, primarily
> > international
> > >> media,
> > >> > has managed to criticize this behaviour which essentially leads
> > to
> > >> primary
> > >> > conviction by the populace and lynchmobs rather than a fair trial
> > by a,
> > >> > presumably, non-partisan court.
> > >> >
> > >> > I think that especially in criminal cases this conduct is
> > despicable and
> > >> an
> > >> > unethical exploitation of media and press freedom to bypass the
> > legal
> > >> > system. I criticize Expressen generally though. They are a bad
> > >> publication
> > >> > and anyone who supports them should be slightly ashamed.
> > >> >
> > >> > /a
> > >> >
> > >> > On 4 December 2010 18:20, Amelia Andersdotter <teirdes at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On 4 December 2010 12:17, Mikulas.Ferjencik <
> > >> Mikulas.Ferjencik at seznam.cz>wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I would like to note, that PPI is not supposed to issue Press
> > releases,
> > >> so
> > >> >>> it is more appropriate to prepare a press release, which can
> > separate
> > >> PPs
> > >> >>> endorse. It would also be good to include what do respective
> > PPs do to
> > >> >>> support wikileaks.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The Swedish Pirate Party and myself do not support Wikileaks as
> > such,
> > >> but
> > >> >> leaking and leaking services in general (including OpenLeaks,
> > cryptome
> > >> and
> > >> >> the newly formed Serbian project for leaks). We would like to
> > see an
> > >> >> inclusive statement that considers the benefit over
> > whistleblowers in
> > >> >> general, and not a specific service for this purpose.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Wikileaks can certainly be exemplified, but it is important that
> > they do
> > >> >> not get to represent the entire leaking community, and
> > especially that
> > >> they
> > >> >> do not overshadow the brave men and women who make sure the
> > leaks get
> > >> out
> > >> >> there in the first place.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Amelia Andersdotter
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> ____________________________________________________
> > >> >>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > >> >>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > >> >>>
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > >> ____________________________________________________
> > >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > >>
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Mikko S?rel?
> "Power that is limited by nothing, by no laws,
> that is restrained by absolutely no rules,
> that rests directly on coercion" -V.I. Lenin on Communism
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 14:14:55 -0500
> From: Jay Emerson <jemers2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Media stupidity Re: Pirate support for
> Wikileaks
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=vC_mDYGgMihOOqxTgi3=wDxMcR57rkDd2qK2s at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> lol words of wisdom, thanks.
>
> Jay Emerson
> Administrative Officer
> Pirate Party of New York
> On Dec 4, 2010 1:42 PM, "Amelia Andersdotter" <teirdes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If there is any possibility of not sinking to Murdoch/Bonniers levels,
> that
> > is good.
> >
> > Never argue with idiots - they will only bring you down to their level.
> >
> > On 4 December 2010 19:22, Jay Emerson <jemers2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, comparison to Murdoch's empire will make it easier for them to
> >> swallow and understand.
> >>
> >> Jay Emerson
> >> Administrative Officer
> >> Pirate Party of New York
> >> On Dec 4, 2010 1:17 PM, "Amelia Andersdotter" <teirdes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > On 4 December 2010 19:02, Jay Emerson <jemers2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Good speech, I'll do research on the media conglomerates that may be
> >> >> influencing such spin at these publications and shine a light on them
> >> >> through the superpowers of blog syndication.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you know who owns that publication let me know please :-)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > I can already help you with that.
> http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressen
> >> >
> >> > Expressen is owned by the Bonnier conglomerat which owns about 80% of
> all
> >> > Swedish media, including Dagens Nyheter and Sydsvenskan, the two
> largest
> >> > publications after Svenska dagbladet and Aftonbladet one of which is
> >> owned
> >> > by Schibstedt (Norwegian conglomerate which holds large stakes in
> >> Norwegian
> >> > media I believe) and LO (the union of most public worker labour
> unions).
> >> >
> >> > All Bonnier publications are going down. Expressen and Dagens nyheter
> >> have
> >> > been going tabloid since several years ago, and Bonnier is more and
> more
> >> > appearing to imitate the Murdoch empire. I'm not really sure what to
> do
> >> > about that though - I know that the non-Bonnier publications are
> mostly
> >> held
> >> > afloat by the Swedish media support system (which, to be fair, also
> helps
> >> > Bonnier) which has recently been condemned by the European Court of
> >> Justice
> >> > for distorting the market. Mark my words - when it goes, so do all
> >> > non-Bonnier publications.
> >> >
> >> > /a
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Jay Emerson
> >> >> Administrative Officer
> >> >> Pirate Party of New York
> >> >> On Dec 4, 2010 12:29 PM, "Amelia Andersdotter" <teirdes at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > If something can be said about the current situation of Wikileaks
> >> founder
> >> >> > Julian Assange it is that a Swedish newspaper, Expressen, has
> >> consistenly
> >> >> > and deliberately published names and pictures of people who are not
> >> yet
> >> >> > convicted, and to whom a primary investigation have not even been
> >> >> started.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is the third time Expressen has engaged in this conduct since
> >> 2006.
> >> >> The
> >> >> > difference this time is that very few paper, primarily
> international
> >> >> media,
> >> >> > has managed to criticize this behaviour which essentially leads to
> >> >> primary
> >> >> > conviction by the populace and lynchmobs rather than a fair trial
> by
> >> a,
> >> >> > presumably, non-partisan court.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I think that especially in criminal cases this conduct is
> despicable
> >> and
> >> >> an
> >> >> > unethical exploitation of media and press freedom to bypass the
> legal
> >> >> > system. I criticize Expressen generally though. They are a bad
> >> >> publication
> >> >> > and anyone who supports them should be slightly ashamed.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > /a
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 4 December 2010 18:20, Amelia Andersdotter <teirdes at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On 4 December 2010 12:17, Mikulas.Ferjencik <
> >> >> Mikulas.Ferjencik at seznam.cz>wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I would like to note, that PPI is not supposed to issue Press
> >> releases,
> >> >> so
> >> >> >>> it is more appropriate to prepare a press release, which can
> >> separate
> >> >> PPs
> >> >> >>> endorse. It would also be good to include what do respective PPs
> do
> >> to
> >> >> >>> support wikileaks.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The Swedish Pirate Party and myself do not support Wikileaks as
> such,
> >> >> but
> >> >> >> leaking and leaking services in general (including OpenLeaks,
> >> cryptome
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> the newly formed Serbian project for leaks). We would like to see
> an
> >> >> >> inclusive statement that considers the benefit over whistleblowers
> in
> >> >> >> general, and not a specific service for this purpose.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Wikileaks can certainly be exemplified, but it is important that
> they
> >> do
> >> >> >> not get to represent the entire leaking community, and especially
> >> that
> >> >> they
> >> >> >> do not overshadow the brave men and women who make sure the leaks
> get
> >> >> out
> >> >> >> there in the first place.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Amelia Andersdotter
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> ____________________________________________________
> >> >> >>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> >> >>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> >> >>>
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >>
> >>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 21:25:58 +0100
> From: Erik L?nroth <erik.lonroth at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Media stupidity Re: Pirate support for
> Wikileaks
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTinv71WUc80rXvNv6rR=oP9BXvd9DWyCoWmzzKek at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I will represent the will of a few persons here in my home town and
> publish it as they wanted.
>
> We will put it on our home-page and send it to the evil-media aswell.
> We normally get it published.
>
> /Erik
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Jay Emerson <jemers2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > lol words of wisdom, thanks.
> >
> > Jay Emerson
> > Administrative Officer
> > Pirate Party of New York
> >
> > On Dec 4, 2010 1:42 PM, "Amelia Andersdotter" <teirdes at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> If there is any possibility of not sinking to Murdoch/Bonniers levels,
> >> that
> >> is good.
> >>
> >> Never argue with idiots - they will only bring you down to their level.
> >>
> >> On 4 December 2010 19:22, Jay Emerson <jemers2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks, comparison to Murdoch's empire will make it easier for them to
> >>> swallow and understand.
> >>>
> >>> Jay Emerson
> >>> Administrative Officer
> >>> Pirate Party of New York
> >>> On Dec 4, 2010 1:17 PM, "Amelia Andersdotter" <teirdes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> > On 4 December 2010 19:02, Jay Emerson <jemers2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Good speech, I'll do research on the media conglomerates that may be
> >>> >> influencing such spin at these publications and shine a light on
> them
> >>> >> through the superpowers of blog syndication.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> If you know who owns that publication let me know please :-)
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> > I can already help you with that.
> >>> > http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressen
> >>> >
> >>> > Expressen is owned by the Bonnier conglomerat which owns about 80% of
> >>> > all
> >>> > Swedish media, including Dagens Nyheter and Sydsvenskan, the two
> >>> > largest
> >>> > publications after Svenska dagbladet and Aftonbladet one of which is
> >>> owned
> >>> > by Schibstedt (Norwegian conglomerate which holds large stakes in
> >>> Norwegian
> >>> > media I believe) and LO (the union of most public worker labour
> >>> > unions).
> >>> >
> >>> > All Bonnier publications are going down. Expressen and Dagens nyheter
> >>> have
> >>> > been going tabloid since several years ago, and Bonnier is more and
> >>> > more
> >>> > appearing to imitate the Murdoch empire. I'm not really sure what to
> do
> >>> > about that though - I know that the non-Bonnier publications are
> mostly
> >>> held
> >>> > afloat by the Swedish media support system (which, to be fair, also
> >>> > helps
> >>> > Bonnier) which has recently been condemned by the European Court of
> >>> Justice
> >>> > for distorting the market. Mark my words - when it goes, so do all
> >>> > non-Bonnier publications.
> >>> >
> >>> > /a
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >> Jay Emerson
> >>> >> Administrative Officer
> >>> >> Pirate Party of New York
> >>> >> On Dec 4, 2010 12:29 PM, "Amelia Andersdotter" <teirdes at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >> > If something can be said about the current situation of Wikileaks
> >>> founder
> >>> >> > Julian Assange it is that a Swedish newspaper, Expressen, has
> >>> consistenly
> >>> >> > and deliberately published names and pictures of people who are
> not
> >>> yet
> >>> >> > convicted, and to whom a primary investigation have not even been
> >>> >> started.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > This is the third time Expressen has engaged in this conduct since
> >>> 2006.
> >>> >> The
> >>> >> > difference this time is that very few paper, primarily
> international
> >>> >> media,
> >>> >> > has managed to criticize this behaviour which essentially leads to
> >>> >> primary
> >>> >> > conviction by the populace and lynchmobs rather than a fair trial
> by
> >>> a,
> >>> >> > presumably, non-partisan court.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > I think that especially in criminal cases this conduct is
> despicable
> >>> and
> >>> >> an
> >>> >> > unethical exploitation of media and press freedom to bypass the
> >>> >> > legal
> >>> >> > system. I criticize Expressen generally though. They are a bad
> >>> >> publication
> >>> >> > and anyone who supports them should be slightly ashamed.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > /a
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > On 4 December 2010 18:20, Amelia Andersdotter <teirdes at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> On 4 December 2010 12:17, Mikulas.Ferjencik <
> >>> >> Mikulas.Ferjencik at seznam.cz>wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>> I would like to note, that PPI is not supposed to issue Press
> >>> releases,
> >>> >> so
> >>> >> >>> it is more appropriate to prepare a press release, which can
> >>> separate
> >>> >> PPs
> >>> >> >>> endorse. It would also be good to include what do respective PPs
> >>> >> >>> do
> >>> to
> >>> >> >>> support wikileaks.
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> The Swedish Pirate Party and myself do not support Wikileaks as
> >>> >> >> such,
> >>> >> but
> >>> >> >> leaking and leaking services in general (including OpenLeaks,
> >>> cryptome
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> >> the newly formed Serbian project for leaks). We would like to see
> >>> >> >> an
> >>> >> >> inclusive statement that considers the benefit over
> whistleblowers
> >>> >> >> in
> >>> >> >> general, and not a specific service for this purpose.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Wikileaks can certainly be exemplified, but it is important that
> >>> >> >> they
> >>> do
> >>> >> >> not get to represent the entire leaking community, and especially
> >>> that
> >>> >> they
> >>> >> >> do not overshadow the brave men and women who make sure the leaks
> >>> >> >> get
> >>> >> out
> >>> >> >> there in the first place.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Amelia Andersdotter
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>> ____________________________________________________
> >>> >> >>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >>> >> >>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ____________________________________________________
> >>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >>> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >>> >>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>> ____________________________________________________
> >>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> pp.international.general mailing list
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> End of pp.international.general Digest, Vol 46, Issue 32
> ********************************************************
>
--
欢迎来到 吹气球 <http://www.rongsos.com/>
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