[pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback

Sat Nov 20 23:03:00 CET 2010

I didn't read the entire thread. But there is no need to target US Senat.

Senator WYDEN has declared that he will oppose the COICA Bill.

As I could understand from what I read around the US blogs y newspaper
if a US Senator oppose a Bill, this one get suspended for a maximum of 6
months, and in even some news report they said that he might be joined in
this opposition by the Senator that represent the district where Hollywood
is situated

I paste and copy of a mail I received from Demandprogress.org. They are a
site where you could sign a petition to stop COICA.

"Jean-Francois -- big news! Yesterday the Senate Judiciary Committee voted
unanimously to send the Internet blacklist bill to the full Senate, but it
was quickly stopped by Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) who denounced it as "a
bunker-buster cluster bomb" aimed at the Internet and pledged to "do
everything I can to take the necessary steps to stop it from passing the
U.S. Senate."

Wyden's opposition practically guarantees *the bill is dead this year* --
and next year the new Congress will have to reintroduce the bill and start
all over again. But even that might not happen: Dianne Feinstein (D-CA),
Hollywood's own senator, told the committee that *even she* was
uncomfortable with the Internet censorship portion of the bill and hoped it
could be removed when they took it up again next year!

This is incredible -- and all thanks to you. Just a month ago, the Senate
was planning to pass this bill unanimously; now even the senator from
Hollywood is backing away from it. *But this fight is far from over* -- next
year, there's going to be hearings, negotiations, and even more crucial
votes. We need to be there, continuing to fight."

Keep on fighting,

-- Aaron Swartz, David Segal, and the Demand Progress team

2010/11/20 <pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net>

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Choms)
>   2. Re: UK action idea: in schools (Erik L?nroth)
>   3. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Partidul Piratilor)
>   4. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Andrew Norton)
>   5. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Rodrigo dA)
>   6. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Andrew Norton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:56:37 +0100
> From: Choms <choms at botmania.net>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>        <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID: <B0A3661C-914C-4545-B208-F59AFBE6D188 at botmania.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> El 20/11/2010, a las 20:27, Andrew Norton escribi?:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On 11/20/2010 2:10 PM, Choms wrote:
> >> LOL, ok, I think this was a list of a political party, but I say no, and
> if u can insult, me too.
> >>
> >> Sir, I think you are a Great idiot.
> >>
> > And you're free to think that. You're not the first on this list to say
> > it, and you won't be the last. Mostly, the ones that have said it in the
> > past, aren't around any more, and yet, 4 years on, I'm still here.
> >
>
> Like Fraga... time to jubilation, don't think so?
>
> >> Well, if you can read http://piratepad.net/LE3F6FmYBO, you'll see it's
> not a bunch of idiots who want DDoS things. That, at my point of view, is a
> great project. Why you needed to shout shit to anonops for asking they
> stoping? there's ways to say things, and no only spreading shit over your
> friends...
> >>
> > Yes I know, a little under two weeks ago, I did an interview with some
> > journos over there, with some of the O:P people. Was a few hours after
> > they did this interview with TF -
> >
> http://torrentfreak.com/behind-the-scenes-at-anonymous-operation-payback-111015/
> >
> > Where do you think the idea for the letter came from?
> >
>
> Yeah, the deal was: hey, you can say shit about me and then you receive the
> good press... I think the deal was "we let you publish a letter when you
> write good things about me, and ask us to stop, and then we stop so we both
> have good press". You disregarded your part of the deal...
>
> Btw, I'm not talking in name of anonops, it's simply my personal opinion
> because I'm raging at the faggotry on this list...
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 21:07:17 +0100
> From: Erik L?nroth <erik.lonroth at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] UK action idea: in schools
> To: rms at gnu.org, Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>        <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTinpb22S_aSW0gC_HqKJzw8SfGi8ge+OZCqeqfNt at mail.gmail.com<AANLkTinpb22S_aSW0gC_HqKJzw8SfGi8ge%2BOZCqeqfNt at mail.gmail.com>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Come back to the thread. It was interesting
>
> "Sharing is good" - campaign. But that means we need alot of people to
> step up and perform.
>
> Someone, a few probably, with experience, authority and will to lead
> campaigns must step forward and take the lead. I'm prepared to follow
> for a while.
>
> /Erik
>
> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Richard Stallman <rms at gnu.org> wrote:
> > ? ?As I am sure you can guess I am personally
> > ? ?very interested in the inherent conflict between free speech, consumer
> > ? ?rights and Intellectual property ownership.
> >
> > The term "intellectual property" is vague. ?Which laws do you mean? ?I
> > would guess that you're talking about copyright, but when that vague
> > term is used, it gives no clue to what the issue is.
> >
> > I suggest using specific terms such as "copyright" and rejecting the
> > vague "intellectual property".
> >
> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Richard Stallman
> > President, Free Software Foundation
> > 51 Franklin St
> > Boston MA 02110
> > USA
> > www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 22:13:52 +0200
> From: Partidul Piratilor <contact at partidulpiratilor.ro>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTim2M=RiAfhsyQS6d+aciGyB2ePKH+-Ro53SNbfi at mail.gmail.com<RiAfhsyQS6d%2BaciGyB2ePKH%2B-Ro53SNbfi at mail.gmail.com>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> First: We protest against the subject line:  it was PP US and PP UK who
> wrote the letter.
>
> Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the
> letter.
> The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only serves the
> interests of MPAA and the likes.
> It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI investigation
> and
> the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law? It's
> interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer crime) and laws
> you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?
>
> PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains question marks
> it's only a statement.
>
> Cristian
> Romanian PP spokesperson
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:38:35 -0500
> From: Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Message-ID: <4CE831CB.9090303 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 11/20/2010 3:13 PM, Partidul Piratilor wrote:
> > First: We protest against the subject line:  it was PP US and PP UK who
> > wrote the letter.
>
> Choms is quite clearly an O:P member. As the rest of his email's have
> shown, he's not really one for facts.
>
> >
> > Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the
> > letter. The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only serves
> > the interests of MPAA and the likes.
>
> Well, yes. We did write the letter fairly and without mass accusation.
> The way certain members of it have responded does give the sense of an
> agent provocateur involved with O:P. While the new 'dispute' may play to
> the MPAA and their ilk, it currently has not done so to anything like
> the degree the original O:P did.
>
> > It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI investigation
> > and the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law?
>
> We in the US have always been on the side of the law. Now, wanting some
> laws changed, that's different from breaking those laws. That way
> anarchy lies, and anarchy serves no-one.
>
> >It's
> > interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer crime) and
> > laws you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?
>
> Actually, we respect *ALL* laws (it's a requirement for a political
> party in the US, if it isn't in Romania, great, you're operating in a
> much nicer, easier system than we are. The likes of Sanziana Buruiana
> wouldn't even get started here, except in maybe one or two states that
> have sane ballot access laws). There are some laws we want changed
> though. However, the computer crimes one isn't one of them, as it's
> written pretty fairly, and does deal with a problem.
>
> >
> > PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains question marks
> > it's only a statement.
> >
> > Cristian
> > Romanian PP spokesperson
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> - --
> Andrew Norton
> http://ktetch.blogspot.com
> Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:59:58 +0000
> From: Rodrigo dA <rata_0071 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> To: <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID: <SNT129-W5871B1DA75D3A208AE9576903B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> I personally don't agree, civil disobedience is perfectly reasonable when
> those in powers have their own agenda and don't pay attention.
> We should focus on changing those laws and let anon alone, it's not like
> they are going to say Ok and stop the attacks anyway xD
>
> -rodrigo
> > Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:38:35 -0500
> > From: ktetch at gmail.com
> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On 11/20/2010 3:13 PM, Partidul Piratilor wrote:
> > > First: We protest against the subject line:  it was PP US and PP UK who
> > > wrote the letter.
> >
> > Choms is quite clearly an O:P member. As the rest of his email's have
> > shown, he's not really one for facts.
> >
> > >
> > > Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the
> > > letter. The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only
> serves
> > > the interests of MPAA and the likes.
> >
> > Well, yes. We did write the letter fairly and without mass accusation.
> > The way certain members of it have responded does give the sense of an
> > agent provocateur involved with O:P. While the new 'dispute' may play to
> > the MPAA and their ilk, it currently has not done so to anything like
> > the degree the original O:P did.
> >
> > > It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI
> investigation
> > > and the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law?
> >
> > We in the US have always been on the side of the law. Now, wanting some
> > laws changed, that's different from breaking those laws. That way
> > anarchy lies, and anarchy serves no-one.
> >
> > >It's
> > > interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer crime) and
> > > laws you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?
> >
> > Actually, we respect *ALL* laws (it's a requirement for a political
> > party in the US, if it isn't in Romania, great, you're operating in a
> > much nicer, easier system than we are. The likes of Sanziana Buruiana
> > wouldn't even get started here, except in maybe one or two states that
> > have sane ballot access laws). There are some laws we want changed
> > though. However, the computer crimes one isn't one of them, as it's
> > written pretty fairly, and does deal with a problem.
> >
> > >
> > > PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains question
> marks
> > > it's only a statement.
> > >
> > > Cristian
> > > Romanian PP spokesperson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________________
> > > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> > - --
> > Andrew Norton
> > http://ktetch.blogspot.com
> > Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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> > =eKzv
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:12:03 -0500
> From: Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Message-ID: <4CE839A3.5030505 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 11/20/2010 3:59 PM, Rodrigo dA wrote:
> > I personally don't agree, civil disobedience is perfectly reasonable when
> > those in powers have their own agenda and don't pay attention.
>
> Right, and it may be acceptable in many countries. In the US, however,
> it just gets our party status stripped. That's why it's a no-go.
>
> > We should focus on changing those laws and let anon alone, it's not like
> > they are going to say Ok and stop the attacks anyway xD
>
> Actually, many did. It seems to be a hard-core 'few' that won't put down
> their 'LOIC' script and do something productive, rather than
> counterproductive.
>
> See, here's what I've been hearing. I have some contacts who have
> contacts in Senators offices. One of the reasons for COICA passing the
> Judiciary Committee so easily, is because of O:P. I *THEN* heard from
> some other sources, that O:P was so 'upset' about it, that they were
> thinking about targeting either the whole senate site (www.senate.gov)
> or just the committee site (judiciary.senate.gov). Apparantly, that
> didn't happen, but it isn't exactly out of character for them - they
> have attacked government websites as part of their campaign.
>
> They are not harmless kids, protesting. They're doing a stupid thing
> which is hurting all of us, giving the ideas behind our movement a
> negative connotation. Does anyone HONESTLY think this 'civil
> disobedience' is viewed as something other than a temper-tantrum by
> 'those in power' and then used as an excuse to push through laws?
> Hell, does anyone actually think O:P did anything positive at all? The
> best you can say is that they pushed the timetable up a little on the
> SRA investigations of ACS:law and Davenport Lyons, and got the
> (completely toothless) UK information Commissioner's office involved.
>
> The ONLY long lasting result from Operation:payback, and indeed any
> other such action, is an increased crackdown, and a negative public
> opinion. The question is, if they really are so passionate for the goals
> they claim, why they're doing everything they can to work against it?
>
> Andrew
>
> >
> > -rodrigo
> >> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:38:35 -0500
> >> From: ktetch at gmail.com
> >> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> >>
> > On 11/20/2010 3:13 PM, Partidul Piratilor wrote:
> >> First: We protest against the subject line: it was PP US and PP UK who
> >> wrote the letter.
> >
> > Choms is quite clearly an O:P member. As the rest of his email's have
> > shown, he's not really one for facts.
> >
> >
> >> Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the
> >> letter. The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only serves
> >> the interests of MPAA and the likes.
> >
> > Well, yes. We did write the letter fairly and without mass accusation.
> > The way certain members of it have responded does give the sense of an
> > agent provocateur involved with O:P. While the new 'dispute' may play to
> > the MPAA and their ilk, it currently has not done so to anything like
> > the degree the original O:P did.
> >
> >> It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI investigation
> >> and the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law?
> >
> > We in the US have always been on the side of the law. Now, wanting some
> > laws changed, that's different from breaking those laws. That way
> > anarchy lies, and anarchy serves no-one.
> >
> >>It's
> >> interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer crime) and
> >> laws you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?
> >
> > Actually, we respect *ALL* laws (it's a requirement for a political
> > party in the US, if it isn't in Romania, great, you're operating in a
> > much nicer, easier system than we are. The likes of Sanziana Buruiana
> > wouldn't even get started here, except in maybe one or two states that
> > have sane ballot access laws). There are some laws we want changed
> > though. However, the computer crimes one isn't one of them, as it's
> > written pretty fairly, and does deal with a problem.
> >
> >
> >> PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains question marks
> >> it's only a statement.
> >
> >> Cristian
> >> Romanian PP spokesperson
> >
> >
> >
> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> - --
> Andrew Norton
> http://ktetch.blogspot.com
> Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> pp.international.general mailing list
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> End of pp.international.general Digest, Vol 45, Issue 34
> ********************************************************
>
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