[pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
Andrew Norton
ktetch at gmail.com
Sat Nov 20 23:25:20 CET 2010
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On 11/20/2010 5:03 PM, Francisco George wrote:
> I didn't read the entire thread. But there is no need to target US Senat.
>
> Senator WYDEN has declared that he will oppose the COICA Bill.
>
> As I could understand from what I read around the US blogs y newspaper
> if a US Senator oppose a Bill, this one get suspended for a maximum of 6
> months, and in even some news report they said that he might be joined in
> this opposition by the Senator that represent the district where
> Hollywood is situated
Ah, if only...
Senators can do a thing called fillibuster, where they can talk and talk
and eventually run the bill out of time. I think the record is 23 hours
continuous talking. Fillibusters can be closed by a process called
cloture, which requires 60 senators (out of the 100) (this is why the
super-majority was a big deal, especially with Franken winning in 08,
and why Brown winning Ted Kennedy (JFK's younger brother)s seat in
Massachusetts.
Also, senators don't have 'districts' per se. They are state
representatives, two from each state, so you're saying one of the two
California senators opposed it.
Also, it's not suspended for 6 months. 30 can be against it and it can
still pass. The bit about it failing is because there was an election at
the start of the month, where all members of the house (2 year terms)
and 1/3 of the senators (6 year terms) were up for re-election. This
congress (house and senate) thus has about 6 weeks left, before it's
disbanded (Jan 3rd), and the new congress sworn in. If it's not passed
by then, it's dropped. It can, however be introduced in the next
congress as a new bill, as early as January 5th.
BTW, Diane Feinstein wasn't THAT unhappy with the bill. She voted for it
Thursday morning (shes on the Senate judiciary committee -
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101118/10291211924/the-19-senators-who-voted-to-censor-the-internet.shtml
Hope this gives you a better insight into how the senate works.
PSST, to give you some idea of what it takes to run for office, when
Feinstein was last elected, in 2006, her campaign spent about $8Million
(http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/cancomsrs/?_06+S0CA00199) while Chuck
Schumer of NY, who was just re-elected, spent $11,824,587
(http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapHSCandDetail.do?election_yr=2010&detailType=cand&cand_id=S8NY00082&category=stateS_dem&stateName=NY
and that's not even counting the last 3 weeks of campaigning)
And then there's all the outside money spent this time (something like
$4 BILLION) So, yeah, it's real hard to get stuff done here.
>
> I paste and copy of a mail I received from Demandprogress.org. They are a
> site where you could sign a petition to stop COICA.
>
> "Jean-Francois -- big news! Yesterday the Senate Judiciary Committee
> voted unanimously to send the Internet blacklist bill to the full
> Senate, but it was quickly stopped by Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) who
> denounced it as "a bunker-buster cluster bomb" aimed at the Internet and
> pledged to "do everything I can to take the necessary steps to stop it
> from passing the U.S. Senate."
>
> Wyden's opposition practically guarantees *the bill is dead this
> year* -- and next year the new Congress will have to reintroduce the
> bill and start all over again. But even that might not happen: Dianne
> Feinstein (D-CA), Hollywood's own senator, told the committee that /even
> she/ was uncomfortable with the Internet censorship portion of the bill
> and hoped it could be removed when they took it up again next year!
>
> This is incredible -- and all thanks to you. Just a month ago, the
> Senate was planning to pass this bill unanimously; now even the senator
> from Hollywood is backing away from it. *But this fight is far from
> over* -- next year, there's going to be hearings, negotiations, and even
> more crucial votes. We need to be there, continuing to fight."
>
> Keep on fighting,
>
> -- Aaron Swartz, David Segal, and the Demand Progress team
>
>
>
>
>
> 2010/11/20 <pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net>>
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Choms)
> 2. Re: UK action idea: in schools (Erik L?nroth)
> 3. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Partidul Piratilor)
> 4. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Andrew Norton)
> 5. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Rodrigo dA)
> 6. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Andrew Norton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:56:37 +0100
> From: Choms <choms at botmania.net <mailto:choms at botmania.net>>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>>
> Message-ID: <B0A3661C-914C-4545-B208-F59AFBE6D188 at botmania.net
> <mailto:B0A3661C-914C-4545-B208-F59AFBE6D188 at botmania.net>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> El 20/11/2010, a las 20:27, Andrew Norton escribi?:
>
> On 11/20/2010 2:10 PM, Choms wrote:
>> >> LOL, ok, I think this was a list of a political party, but I say
>> no, and if u can insult, me too.
>> >>
>> >> Sir, I think you are a Great idiot.
>> >>
> And you're free to think that. You're not the first on this list
>> to say
> it, and you won't be the last. Mostly, the ones that have said it
>> in the
> past, aren't around any more, and yet, 4 years on, I'm still here.
>
>
>> Like Fraga... time to jubilation, don't think so?
>
>> >> Well, if you can read http://piratepad.net/LE3F6FmYBO, you'll see
>> it's not a bunch of idiots who want DDoS things. That, at my point
>> of view, is a great project. Why you needed to shout shit to anonops
>> for asking they stoping? there's ways to say things, and no only
>> spreading shit over your friends...
>> >>
> Yes I know, a little under two weeks ago, I did an interview with some
> journos over there, with some of the O:P people. Was a few hours after
> they did this interview with TF -
>
>> http://torrentfreak.com/behind-the-scenes-at-anonymous-operation-payback-111015/
>
> Where do you think the idea for the letter came from?
>
>
>> Yeah, the deal was: hey, you can say shit about me and then you
>> receive the good press... I think the deal was "we let you publish a
>> letter when you write good things about me, and ask us to stop, and
>> then we stop so we both have good press". You disregarded your part
>> of the deal...
>
>> Btw, I'm not talking in name of anonops, it's simply my personal
>> opinion because I'm raging at the faggotry on this list...
>
>> ------------------------------
>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 21:07:17 +0100
>> From: Erik L?nroth <erik.lonroth at gmail.com
>> <mailto:erik.lonroth at gmail.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] UK action idea: in schools
>> To: rms at gnu.org <mailto:rms at gnu.org>, Pirate Parties International
>> -- General Talk
>> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>>
>> Message-ID:
>> <AANLkTinpb22S_aSW0gC_HqKJzw8SfGi8ge+OZCqeqfNt at mail.gmail.com
>> <mailto:AANLkTinpb22S_aSW0gC_HqKJzw8SfGi8ge%2BOZCqeqfNt at mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>> Come back to the thread. It was interesting
>
>> "Sharing is good" - campaign. But that means we need alot of people to
>> step up and perform.
>
>> Someone, a few probably, with experience, authority and will to lead
>> campaigns must step forward and take the lead. I'm prepared to follow
>> for a while.
>
>> /Erik
>
>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Richard Stallman <rms at gnu.org
>> <mailto:rms at gnu.org>> wrote:
> ? ?As I am sure you can guess I am personally
> ? ?very interested in the inherent conflict between free speech,
>> consumer
> ? ?rights and Intellectual property ownership.
>
> The term "intellectual property" is vague. ?Which laws do you mean? ?I
> would guess that you're talking about copyright, but when that vague
> term is used, it gives no clue to what the issue is.
>
> I suggest using specific terms such as "copyright" and rejecting the
> vague "intellectual property".
>
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html.
>
>
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> ------------------------------
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:12:03 -0500
> From: Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com <mailto:ktetch at gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Message-ID: <4CE839A3.5030505 at gmail.com
> <mailto:4CE839A3.5030505 at gmail.com>>
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> On 11/20/2010 3:59 PM, Rodrigo dA wrote:
I personally don't agree, civil disobedience is perfectly
> reasonable when
those in powers have their own agenda and don't pay attention.
> Right, and it may be acceptable in many countries. In the US, however,
> it just gets our party status stripped. That's why it's a no-go.
We should focus on changing those laws and let anon alone, it's
> not like
they are going to say Ok and stop the attacks anyway xD
> Actually, many did. It seems to be a hard-core 'few' that won't put down
> their 'LOIC' script and do something productive, rather than
> counterproductive.
> See, here's what I've been hearing. I have some contacts who have
> contacts in Senators offices. One of the reasons for COICA passing the
> Judiciary Committee so easily, is because of O:P. I *THEN* heard from
> some other sources, that O:P was so 'upset' about it, that they were
> thinking about targeting either the whole senate site
> (www.senate.gov <http://www.senate.gov>)
> or just the committee site (judiciary.senate.gov
> <http://judiciary.senate.gov>). Apparantly, that
> didn't happen, but it isn't exactly out of character for them - they
> have attacked government websites as part of their campaign.
> They are not harmless kids, protesting. They're doing a stupid thing
> which is hurting all of us, giving the ideas behind our movement a
> negative connotation. Does anyone HONESTLY think this 'civil
> disobedience' is viewed as something other than a temper-tantrum by
> 'those in power' and then used as an excuse to push through laws?
> Hell, does anyone actually think O:P did anything positive at all? The
> best you can say is that they pushed the timetable up a little on the
> SRA investigations of ACS:law and Davenport Lyons, and got the
> (completely toothless) UK information Commissioner's office involved.
> The ONLY long lasting result from Operation:payback, and indeed any
> other such action, is an increased crackdown, and a negative public
> opinion. The question is, if they really are so passionate for the goals
> they claim, why they're doing everything they can to work against it?
> Andrew
> >
- -rodrigo
> >> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:38:35 -0500
> >> From: ktetch at gmail.com <mailto:ktetch at gmail.com>
> >> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
> >>
On 11/20/2010 3:13 PM, Partidul Piratilor wrote:
> >> First: We protest against the subject line: it was PP US and PP
> UK who
> >> wrote the letter.
> >
Choms is quite clearly an O:P member. As the rest of his email's have
shown, he's not really one for facts.
> >
> >
> >> Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the
> >> letter. The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only
> serves
> >> the interests of MPAA and the likes.
> >
Well, yes. We did write the letter fairly and without mass accusation.
The way certain members of it have responded does give the sense of an
agent provocateur involved with O:P. While the new 'dispute' may
> play to
the MPAA and their ilk, it currently has not done so to anything like
the degree the original O:P did.
> >
> >> It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI
> investigation
> >> and the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law?
> >
We in the US have always been on the side of the law. Now, wanting
> some
laws changed, that's different from breaking those laws. That way
anarchy lies, and anarchy serves no-one.
> >
> >>It's
> >> interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer
> crime) and
> >> laws you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?
> >
Actually, we respect *ALL* laws (it's a requirement for a political
party in the US, if it isn't in Romania, great, you're operating in a
much nicer, easier system than we are. The likes of Sanziana Buruiana
wouldn't even get started here, except in maybe one or two states that
have sane ballot access laws). There are some laws we want changed
though. However, the computer crimes one isn't one of them, as it's
written pretty fairly, and does deal with a problem.
> >
> >
> >> PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains
> question marks
> >> it's only a statement.
> >
> >> Cristian
> >> Romanian PP spokesperson
> >
> >
> >
> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
____________________________________________________
Pirate Parties International - General Talk
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> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
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> - --
> Andrew Norton
> http://ktetch.blogspot.com
> Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
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- --
Andrew Norton
http://ktetch.blogspot.com
Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
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