[pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference Kazan 2013

[Antonio Garcia]

Formal?

You have plenipotenciary powers to decide this on your own, as in personally involved, on behalf of the whole of your party?


A party which, it must be said, has not published a single comma on this list since you certainly shamed them so deeply...


You must be out of your mind.


Antonio.

> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:20:36 +0200
> From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> To: ningunotro at hotmail.com
> CC: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference	Kazan 2013
> 
> On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 13:17:19 +0000, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > After the infamous letter you posted lately, I must say I admire your
> > ignorant guts :) .
> > 
> > 
> > Antonio.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> This is ANOTHER formal complaint about Antonio's behaviour.
> 
> 
> >> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:13:51 +0200
> >> From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> >> To: ningunotro at hotmail.com
> >> CC: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
> >> Conference	Kazan 2013
> >> 
> >> Antonio, points are points, insults are insults. You simply keep on
> >> insulting anyone not supporting your desires.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Is insulting people an acceptable behaviour in this mailing list?
> >> 
> >> This is a formal complaint about Antonio's behaviour.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> 
> >> Kenneth
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 12:51:10 +0000, Antonio Garcia
> >> <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Your wishful thinking is pathetic.
> >> > 
> >> > I do not need to be a delegate to Kazan for the Spanish Pirate Party
> to
> >> > have inalienable rights. I have these on my own as a human being, and
> >> > as
> >> an
> >> > equal among pirates.
> >> > 
> >> > By their own Rules of Procedure, provisional as they might be but
> >> > deemed
> >> > temporarily enforceable unless a General Assembly ruled otherwise
> >> (which,
> >> > thanks to the terrible efficiency of General Assemblies has not
> >> > happened
> >> > yet :) )... anonymous complaints are acceptable in matters regarding
> >> > infringement of PPI Statutes.
> >> > 
> >> > What happened at the PPI GA in Prague and showed up in several CoA
> >> rulings
> >> > qualifies largely as such.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > So, no matter how cleverly you or anybody else thought he was
> >> scheming...
> >> > you are fucked assholes.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > And PPI and PPI Board are walking on eggs in this...
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Antonio.
> >> > 
> >> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 14:02:23 +0200
> >> > Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
> >> > Conference	Kazan	2013
> >> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> >> > To: ningunotro at hotmail.com;
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > 
> >> > All your logic goes linked to your personal wishes, not to rules or
> >> > statutes.
> >> > Current PPI statutes don't accept personal/annonymous complaints, so
> >> stop
> >> > crying and at least get recognized as the official delegate of your
> >> party
> >> > before complaining/crying/begging any longer.
> >> > So far, for what I know, your fellow party members don't want you to
> >> > represent them at all.
> >> > Go fix that or shout up :)
> >> > Be really logic, my friend. Don't just say you are .
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Salut! 
> >> > Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> escribió:
> >> > You have a weird sense of logic and ethic, my "friend".
> >> > 
> >> > I do not need to propose anything. This is pending matter since it
> was
> >> > duly introduced as an anonymous complaint to the Court of
> Arbitration.
> >> > 
> >> > And it gets absolute priority at the PPI General Assembly because the
> >> > GA
> >> > is the supreme body of appeal when the CoA fails to deliver, and
> >> > because
> >> > its outcome impacts on voting rights at the same General Assembly.
> >> > 
> >> > Vote outcomes could be different if the vote of the Catalan Pirate
> >> > Party
> >> > are deemed valid... so solving this issue comes first.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > And not doing it in such a way raises that many LOGICAL and ETHICAL
> >> > questions within PPI...
> >> > 
> >> > ... that a FORK to the whole movement that provides a safe harbour
> for
> >> > logically and ethically consistent Pirates... is not to e ruled out
> if
> >> PPI
> >> > utterly fails in this.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Either way... you are done.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Antonio.
> >> > 
> >> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 11:18:47 +0200
> >> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International
> >> > Conference	Kazan	2013
> >> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> >> > To: ningunotro at hotmail.com;
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > 
> >> > To propose anything... You need to do it through your officiap
> >> > representatives.
> >> > The members of PPI are its parties, not its party members, and so far
> >> you
> >> > haven't been appointed as PP-ES delegate.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Salut! 
> >> > Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> escribió:
> >> > It's a bit late to try to get a quorum lowering participation costs
> for
> >> > remotely represented members to zero or almost zero.
> >> > 
> >> > Holding the GA in Kazan has been a strategical move only to benefit
> >> > Gregory's position since the very beginning of it.
> >> > 
> >> > Remember, PP of Russia is not even registered yet.
> >> > 
> >> > Remember,  there was such an interest in organizing this in Russia...
> >> that
> >> > there were two concurrent bids from there.
> >> > 
> >> > Remember, the meetings where the outcome of the selection process was
> >> > crafted... were densely populated with participants.
> >> > 
> >> > Remember, there is maybe still another meeting scheduled for Kiev...
> >> > theoretically stealth approved through "administrative silence"...
> from
> >> > Gregory?
> >> > 
> >> > Remember, the russian bids were so consistent... the venue for Kazan
> is
> >> > not the originally offered venue anymore.
> >> > 
> >> > Remember, the Kazan offer is headed towards being the most expensive
> in
> >> > the history of the pirate movement... only affordable for local
> >> > russians
> >> > and the international pirate dandies with unlimited travel budgets.
> >> > 
> >> > And certainly, it will be a place where Gregory will easily find
> straw
> >> men
> >> > to hold his many delegation representations. How many this time,
> >> Gregory?
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Surely, he aims for reelection, and he is bureaucratically working
> with
> >> > his elbows towards it to the best of his abilities... and 150.000
> >> > rubles
> >> of
> >> > personal subsidies.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > I am tired of all the bulshit stacked into the Pirate Movement in
> such
> >> > a
> >> > short timeframe because of the lack of genuine leadership and vision
> in
> >> the
> >> > Pirate Swarm.
> >> > 
> >> > It has become an IDIOCRACY some demagogues know far too well how to
> >> > navigate with populism and mob rule.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > If Kazan does not put an end to the endless horrors against logic and
> >> > ethic imposed onto the Pirate Movement in Prague (I witnessed that in
> >> utter
> >> > awe, do not know if it was more or less than in previous GAs)... then
> >> the
> >> > Pirate Movement is a walking Zombie.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > One single and simple test to begin with:
> >> > 
> >> > 1) The bogus admission of the Catalan Pirate Party as a full member
> of
> >> the
> >> > PPI after a mere propaganda session, a blackmail to the Assembly, and
> >> mob
> >> > rule to impose a vote on a matter not being an ad-hoc competence of
> the
> >> > General Assembly, instrumentalizing a non-motion of the Australian
> >> Pirate
> >> > Party... and ignoring it did not even reach the required two-thirds
> >> > majority.
> >> > 
> >> > The Statutes of PPI were blatantly ignored first, and consciously
> >> violated
> >> > in a sentence of the Court of Arbitration that will certainly be
> >> > awarded
> >> > the Nobel Prize for utter stupidity as soon as it is created.
> >> > 
> >> > I presented a very argumented and of unavoidable consequences
> complaint
> >> to
> >> > the Court of Arbitration... anonymously, as I could not get the
> backing
> >> of
> >> > a spineless Board of the Spanish Pirate Party,... carefully following
> >> the
> >> > published guidelines of the Rules of Procedure of the Court of
> >> > Arbitration,... that had decided -without a hint of disapproval
> >> anywhere-
> >> > that it would accept anonymous complaints of anybody in case of
> >> > infringement to the PPI Statutes.
> >> > 
> >> > There was only one way to stop the complaint of achieving its goal...
> >> > render the CoA absolutely inoperative so that it could not resolve
> into
> >> a
> >> > result it could not tamper with.
> >> > 
> >> > PP-CH threatened to SUE the PPI in court in such a clumsy way it
> >> > offered
> >> > Gregory an dreamed excuse to impose the resignation of the Court of
> >> > Arbitration as a Salomonic (rather satanic) "solution" the Swiss
> could
> >> be
> >> > happy with or show muscle... and they folded.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > As the voting rights of a bogus member are being contested... either
> we
> >> > solve this adequately on-line BEFORE the assembly (and then maybe
> more
> >> > members seeing some hope is still a push to get the needed remote
> >> > participants on board)... or you will be fighting it out during the
> two
> >> > days, unable to tackle anything else (what a waste of money and time
> >> > for
> >> > all those present in Kazan), and sign the demise of a pirate movement
> >> > already lacking credibility for any intelligent being.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Antonio García.
> >> > (by some kind of weird disfunctional wonder... official member of the
> >> > Board of the Spanish Pirate Party... while it lasts :( ). 
> >> > 
> >> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 03:02:40 +0200
> >> > From: jelena.the.one at gmail.com
> >> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Pirate Parties International Conference
> >> > Kazan	2013
> >> > 
> >> > I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on
> >> this
> >> > list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are
> good.
> >> > 
> >> > that's what I am doing, that's community management, not campaign and
> >> > advertising :) thanx for having time to reply
> >> > I really believe conference fees should be none for remote
> >> > participants,
> >> > since Kazan is that far and that expensive. Excuse e Gregory, but
> fees
> >> are
> >> > 3 do 4 times higher then in Prague.
> >> > 
> >> >  
> >> > On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Simon Frew
> >> <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > 
> >> >>Jelena said:
> >> > 
> >> >>It was not a junket. it was good opportunity for networking. And
> there 
> >> > is less trolling and hate speech when you meet someone face 2 face. 
> >> > 
> >> > That's
> >> >  good if you can afford it, none of our members seem to have the
> spare 
> >> > funds to travel to Russia for a two day meeting, and we can't afford
> >> > to
> >> > fund them out of our limited budget.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> >>I think conference few should be much lower for remote participants.
> Or
> >> >>it should be no fee at all.
> >> > 
> >> > Those
> >> >  of us attending as remote delegates cannot register to attend.
> >> >  Leaving
> >> > us to wonder, will there even be remote delegates this year? Will it
> >> > be
> >> > any better than previous years? 
> >> > 
> >> > I think I speak for many non-European 
> >> > parties when I say we are looking for reassurance and evidence that
> we 
> >> > wont get screwed over and left out yet again. If this years GA is as
> >> > farcical as the last two, the organisation will start to crumble.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> >>PPI has no budget, and I as a board member didn't use any 
> >> > money so far. Even for runnign FB campaign resources (maybe) could be
> 
> >> > given from PP DE. 
> >> >>When I realized it I gave up making a project proposal
> >> >  and going trough bureaucracy for little campaign 
> >> >>(managing FB ads from 
> >> > Serbia is cheaper than in other countries, ofc talking about price
> per 
> >> > click / per 1000 views) 
> >> > 
> >> > I think you can get campaigns off the ground through posting ideas on
> >> this
> >> > list and involving the various national Parties if the ideas are
> good.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> >>PPI board members, as far as I know, will go to 
> >> > Kazan from their own money too. PPI has no budget even to send board
> >> > to
> >> > PPI conference. 
> >> >>And I agree it is not cheap even when you are flying 
> >> > from Europe, I calculated costs of flight ticket and hotel and it was
> 
> >> > cca 1.000 eur (~ 1.200 AU dollars), from the Balkans. 
> >> > 
> >> > Surely
> >> >  remote participation would be more important than ever, yet despite 
> >> > repeated efforts through multiple channels we cannot get a response 
> >> > reassuring people who can't attend in person that they will be able
> to 
> >> > participate and that remote delegates will be taken seriously.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > What does the Board want the money for? How much does it want?
> >> > 
> >> > We are reluctant 
> >> > to give money 
> >> > to an organisation that we feel effectively excluded from, with no
> >> > idea
> >> > what it will do. The trust we have in the PPI, if you can't tell is 
> >> > basically non-existant at the moment. The Co-Chair publicly attacking
> >> > us
> >> >  for not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to go to Russia
> doesn't 
> >> > exactly give us confidence any money that goes to PPI will be used 
> >> > wisely.
> >> > 
> >> > Mab wrote:
> >> > 
> >> >>The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform
> for 
> >> > our general assemblies. Over the years we have developed 
> >> >>quite a few 
> >> > fetures to make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are
> >> > entirely
> >> >  text based and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that 
> >> >>people can attend 
> >> > regardless of when they have the time to be online. Any single round
> >> > of
> >> > voting spans at least 24 hours to facilitate 
> >> >>that everyone can vote.
> >> > 
> >> > This sounds like the exact sort of thing that is needed for PPI.
> >> > 
> >> > Regards
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Simon
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:18 AM,  <mattias.bjarnemalm at piratpartiet.se>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > The Swedish Pirate Party has since the start used a forum platform
> for
> >> our
> >> > general assemblies. Over the years we have developed quite a few
> >> > fetures
> >> to
> >> > make it more suitable for online assemlies. They are entirely text
> >> > based
> >> > and nowadays spans 6 weeks so that people can attend regardless of
> when
> >> > they have the time to be online. Any single round of voting spans at
> >> least
> >> > 24 hours to facilitate that everyone can vote.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > I am pretty sure a similar model would work for PPI, which, given its
> >> > delegate system, would have far less participants.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > If ppi where interested I am sure we could provide the technical
> >> know-how
> >> > of how to set up a web forum.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > All the best
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Mab
> >> > 
> >> > PP-SE
> >> > 
> >> > EU-branch
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On 2013-04-02 10:41, Simon Frew wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > We just use cheap video streaming with an IRC channel where we verify
> >> > 
> >> > who can vote and give them voice. Everyone with a computer monitors
> >> > 
> >> > IRC so remote delegates get adequately represented. I think it costs
> >> > 
> >> > about $50 for the streaming, but if its entirely online a Mumble
> >> > 
> >> > server and a Pad would about do it. When we hired all of the gear it
> >> > 
> >> > cost a total of $150 or so, but we have members who can provide a lot
> >> > 
> >> > of infrastructure out of their own gear.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > It was suggested on #PPI IRC that one could be held on Google+, PP
> >> > 
> >> > California meet using it (or did when I attended a meeting once) and
> >> > 
> >> > it worked well. It means dealing with Google and subsequent privacy
> >> > 
> >> > implications but it has video and is free.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > If there wont be any remote participation in the GA we might as well
> >> > 
> >> > hold our own on Mumble. You guys could even have the honour of
> hosting
> >> > 
> >> > the first one. Although PPAU has its own Mumble server too. Just
> start
> >> > 
> >> > it later in your day time so I dont have to get up too early to
> >> > 
> >> > attend. ;)
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Regards
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Simon
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Aza <rata_0071 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 2013/4/1 Simon Frew <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > We run remote participation for every congress in Australia and it
> >> > costs
> >> > virtually nothing. See our official complaint letter for how to do
> it.
> >> The
> >> > idea it is expensive is false.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Hey Simon could the PPAU provide the infrastructure for a virtual GA?
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > At the PPAR we have a mumble server that could be used if you dont
> miss
> >> > video.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > If we cant participate in the same one we may just as well have a
> >> parallel
> >> > virtual GA
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > regards
> >> > 
> >> > aza
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > President of the Intergalactic Pirate Party (IPP)
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > ____________________________________________________
> >> > 
> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> > 
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > 
> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> > [1]
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Links:
> >> > 
> >> > ------
> >> > 
> >> > [1]
> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > ____________________________________________________
> >> > 
> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> > 
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > 
> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > ____________________________________________________
> >> > 
> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> > 
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > 
> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > ____________________________________________________
> >> > 
> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> > 
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > 
> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > --
 		 	   		  
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