[pp.int.general] Remember remember...
ningunotro at hotmail.com
Thu Jul 11 22:29:24 CEST 2013
Quoted from one of Seykron's previous messages:
"I don't figure out what is the way, but nobody can deny something
very tense is moving through the world. Our reflections will be lost
in the ocean of information until someone in the future find it out
to understand why "pirate parties failed" or why "goverments spy us"
or the best scenario, "how capitalism became obsolete".
Comprehensive experience documentation (a.k.a. reflection) is
essential to understand the future."
Why does it have to be someone in the future?
Imagine someone were able to find out these things TODAY, even
yesterday :( . How would the world, or even only the pirate
movement... handle such knowledge?
> Perhaps Seykron´s view is from a middle class Argentinian person.
> But I can assure you in our Argentine discussion list(where Seykron
> participates too), we are all the time trying to understand other
> points of view. Specially the aborigine one. That is even more
> complicated to understood than the simple poor people, because
> involves see the world in a quite different way. It´s not easy, but
> I can assure you we are making the best effort to try to understand
> and think about the needs of all the Argentine people. Not only
> having into account different classes but also different cultures.
The difference between aboriginal points of view and more western
ones lies in the fact that they have not yet fallen in the trap of
applying advanced mathematics to the question of survival. The sort
of... only when you control 1/2 of Earth's resources can you be
relatively sure nobody (not even the 99% of them together) gets to
control more than you and have a chance to assure their survival
threatening yours. Please, imagine the enormeous implications of
such an otherwise simple (as in accessible early in humanities
It is not the aboriginal logic you need to understand, but rather
your own as practised by the "learned" elites rather than the plain
peoples, and the consequences of it's mere existence upon all the
rest of humanity.
> We have talk to them, we have help them the ways we know and we are
> always trying to comprehend them and other social classes. I know is
> not easy, but you can see in that list we are continuously asking
> ourselves how we can make them participate when they do not have
> internet and how we can help them and for us that are born with
> internet (or risen with it) is not an easy task.
They can not be helped in any way other than us getting rid of the
prisoners dilemma in our survival logic.
> Besides that we are trying to see the world through our pirate
> lenses. Trying to carry our principles to different situations.
Please, revisit your "pirate lenses". Read what Rick Falkvinge,
founder of the Pirate Movement, writes about it in what he has
already published online of his forthcoming book "The Swarm". He
ain't got everything right... but your understanding of pirate
values, as much as it may be your logical understanding of these, is
miles away of what he has ever thought about it.
> We realized for example the share issue is not only for documents,
> movies and music, it involves seeds, patents, share public places
> and public resources, etc. That´s when we add all these people into
> the equation. Perhaps they do not need to share internet files, but
> they sure need to have the right to have an opinion about how the
> public resources are used. That kind of sharing is still a pirate
> way of thinking that goes beyond the computer world.
The problem is not SHARING, or the lack of it... the problem is
ACCUMULATION, when the goal of MORE THAN ONE ENTITY is to reach
safety through accumulating at least half of everything.
> For me that´s one of the threads that carries us to the treasure
> that Seykron is asking. The pirate ability to take our ideals and
> transform the way of thinking the world into a world for us all,
> where sharing is a cultural good we must protect.
When NOT EVEN ONE tries to accumulate at least half of all...
because he thinks his survival depends on it mathematically... (Five
Eyes anyone?)... then Sharing will be Caring, and we will have
solved peak oil, peak water, and peak X.
What pirate ability are you talking about? Humanism is still not in
the center of the Pirate Wheel. In fact, it cost me some effort to
get it on the wheel at all.
> Part of the pirate treasure for me is that. Having the ability to
> see beyond the computer world boundaries and doing that contribute
> to make a better world for everybody. Maybe is a utopia, but it
> worth the effort of trying and if not changing all the world at
> least to change something. Once I read you have to have big goals in
> life. Because even if you do not get them, in the way you'll have
> make a great difference.
Maybe you should try to see beyond the boundaries of the fatal mass
dynamics of naieve and ignorant horizontal assembly movements. You
have quite some experience with the downfall of such movements in
There is NO democratic way out of an IDIOCRACY. Do not become one.
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