[pp.int.general] Moderated PPI discussion list

[Anouk]

in-line answered.

On 16 June 2013 00:47, Muriel Rovira Esteva <muriel at pirata.cat> wrote:

> Dear Anouk,
>
> This list is for pirates. It's not the outer world nor the corridors of a
> Parliament. It should be a friendly environment. This is our discussion
> space, where we should be welcoming, motivating and encouraging newly
> arrived pirates. Shy and intimidated people may have very good ideas or
> insights that the whole movement can benefit from.
>

Hence I asked, but a little footnote, even being very shy or timid, if one
never speaks out, you (in general) got a (common) personality problem to
deal with.


>
> We do not need every single pirate helping us to change society or working
> for our cause to be at the front line shouting and speaking out loud,
> fighting within a harsh environment of old school politicians. Everyone has
> its place. Successful teamwork means that every individual should be
> fulfilling different and complementary tasks.
>

Precisely, 'we' are still trying to arrive at this working model/principle.
So assuming that 'we' are already at this state is a fallacy (which is
actually the core problem! Hence the returning kindergarten remark).


> If we select only one kind of personality traits, and we only encourage a
> kind of person to get in our team (call it enduring or whatever), we're
> very likely to loose a great deal of our potential and the insights that
> you get when you talk to people that are very different from you... I don't
> know, perhaps they would be able to tell, for instance, why is the movement
> not as successful sometimes as you would like it to be.
>

You gave yourself the answer just before :) TEAMWORK, we all have different
talents learn to use them instead of trying to be this  omnipotent
'superpirate'. And YES we do need people at the political front that can
endure foul attacks !!!


>
> Additionally, I do not see as our duty (nor understand this obsession)
> with toughening up people who may temptatively come here to see what the
> pirates are about, and which may be willing to volunteer part of their time
> to the project, if the thing is appealing enough to them. Last time I
> checked this wasn't the mailing list of a military camp.
>

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu
*It is said that if you know <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Knowledge> your
enemies <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Enemies> and know yourself, you will
not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but
do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your
enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

*
Life itself is a war until we abandon the notion of peace and war ! Hide
and duck is a very bad advise from the fifties to protect yourself from a
nuclear attack. If an attack is imminent, don't go in denial because you
will suffer the consequences.

Is the Pirate Party not the result of a foul attack at pirate bay ? Are
pirates at peace with this ? I do not think so.


>
> I also think that we're plural (good thing!), and understand that some
> very valuable people with good ideas will not know how to express their
> thoughts in a different way (call it soft or respectful). And because I
> don't want to miss their insights either, that is why I think an
> unmoderated list should be mantained as well.


Why does anyone shy would like to expose him/herself to an international
scene ? This is a* contradictio in terminis*.
These pirates can function perfectly at a local level.

 I am agreeing that a 'safe' mail list could help but frankly I doubt it.


> Why should we limit ourselves to one way or the other? Don't you think
> that the more ways we have to communicate the better?
>
> Why do some care so much that other people talk among themselves with a
> set of rules, if they please to do so? Isn't forcing this no-rules rule on
> them a way of limiting their expression?
>
> Best regards,
>
>              Muriel
>
>
You are a good person, thanks for your feedback. Know your friends.


>
>
>
> 2013/6/15 Anouk <jakobsheep at gmail.com>
>
>> Hi Muriel and others,
>> I like to point out that /anyone/ feeling intimidated should/must speak
>> out loud.  For how do we know that this is happening ?
>>
>> Secondly, how does one survive at the real political scene ? If we can't
>> deal with straigth forward problems as Antonio has argumented, what chance
>> do the pirates have in public functions ?
>> I still see his arguments on the table not being handled well.
>> Kindergarten is unfortunately an good metaphore, and I like to add, without
>> supervision. (although I like to point out that I also do see progress).
>> Unfortunately sometimes things have to go worse before things improve. (It
>> is called, everybody has to reinvent that same wheel)
>> This is my opinion and I do not experience the discussions as
>> intolerable, au contraire. I get more and more  insights in the persons
>> that shout and curse. This is how they profile themselves, then that is how
>> they are. The truth (with humans) is more often ugly then beautiful,
>> unfortunately. Deal with it rather then keeping it at a distance.
>>
>> Anouk
>>  On Jun 15, 2013 11:03 PM, "Muriel Rovira Esteva" <muriel at pirata.cat>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I fail to see how leaving this list as it is, and open a new one for
>>> people who likes to discuss differently is censoring anyone in any way.  :)
>>>
>>> In any case, it would be all the contrary, it would give the oportunity
>>> to all those who may feel a bit intimidated here to say something to speak
>>> their mind and participate.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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